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Author Topic: Iron Gate  (Read 25789 times)
Tulsasaurus Rex
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« on: August 25, 2015, 08:23:49 am »

This is going to get brought up on here sooner than later. Might as well start the topic now.

One thing I was surprised to learn: Everyone's favorite "developer" is involved in this.


Quote
Stockholm owned the property on which the old furniture and lumber company occupied, but sold it to Michael Sager.

Sager, who sits on the Downtown Coordinating Council, is best known for his company Blue Dome Properties LLC, which has invested heavily in downtown. He purchased the proposed soup kitchen site from Stockholm through a different company, Bricks and Mortar LLC.

He defended the Iron Gate move Monday, saying the new building would be a positive for the neighborhood.

“I think it is a fabulous use of the property.” he said. “The architecture, the investment. … I think it is fabulous.”

He called those who would use the city’s most vulnerable population to spread fear “terribly petty.”

“I think there is plenty of crime that is not attributable to the homeless and the people in need,” Sager said.

https://www.readfrontier.com/future-of-iron-gate-soup-kitchen-in-hands-of-board-of-adjustment/
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PonderInc
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« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2015, 08:32:09 am »

Anyone have site plans / renderings for this? I've heard some of the opponents but haven't seen the actual plan.
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Tulsasaurus Rex
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« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2015, 08:37:45 am »

Anyone have site plans / renderings for this? I've heard some of the opponents but haven't seen the actual plan.

There were some on a Tulsa Now blog article by Carlos but that seems to have been deleted. here's the best I can find. https://www.facebook.com/tulsa.pearldistrict/posts/961573857239890
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DolfanBob
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« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2015, 09:16:47 am »

Was that the old Reeves TV store?
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Changing opinions one mistake at a time.
Tulsasaurus Rex
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« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2015, 09:21:32 am »

Was that the old Reeves TV store?

News keeps saying an old furniture and wood store
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AngieB
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« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2015, 09:52:20 am »

Was that the old Reeves TV store?

That location used to be Sandco Manufacturing...up until about 1996, I think. They made products for the graphics and printing industry. I did some design work for them in trade for a pretty nice light table back in the day...
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2015, 01:57:24 pm »

So the guy that wants to sell them the building thinks it is a great idea?  Gee, tell me more.  Hey, how about this. Sager can float the loan to Iron Gate with a repayment plan when construction is finished. Iron Gate can pay itself a management fee from that money and not finish the project for more than a decade.

My attitude on this project is simple:

99% chance it hinders development of the area.

Sorry, it's a fact that people don't want to build nice things near homeless shelters, jails, or soup kitchens. You'll note the ring immediately around David L. Moss and the Day Shelter has not even thought about starting to develop - even though the warehouses between there and the BOK Center (Sheriff's office) could make a really cool neighborhood. Nope. Abandoned cars. Junk lots. And empty buildings.

Iron Gate serves a need, and many of their patrons are just down on their luck "poor" people. But some are mentally ill. Chronically homeless. Or flat out sketchy. They all might be perfectly nice, but I don't really want to hang out with sketchy people and I wouldn't want my wife or son to walk by a size-able group of unknown shady looking people. It's human nature - we avoid people who don't fit our norms. Hundreds of people a day waiting around Iron Gate for a free meal, many of whom fit that description.

Yes, that makes me somewhere down the scale from Mother Teresa. But I'm honest. I'm not saying the people are a crime waive, or that they are going to eat my baby... perception is all that matters. And the perception is that they make people uncomfortable (myself included, got a dollar?). I hang out with plenty of sketchy people, after I got to the know them. The neighbors here won't have a chance to regularly get to know the revolving cast that frequents Iron Gate. How many volunteers at Iron Gate would want to live next door?

If you had the choice to buy a newly renovated house. Each are 3 bedroom, 2 bath, ~1600 square feet - nicely remodeled, a big front porch and a fenced in backyard. House 1 is a few blocks away from Iron Gate, house 2 is directly across the street. How much would you pay for each?  House 1: $150k?  House 2: $125k? $100k? I'd certainly be wiling to pay an extra $25k to not have a large group of "down on their luck" people milling about daily. Maybe more considering the next guy I try to sell it to might put a steeper discount on it. How about rental rates?

How about a business. You want to buy an old building and fix it up to be a law office, a restaurant, or an interior design studio. Maybe a small nick-nack shop. How likely are you to drop your life savings if the building you are considering is next to Iron Gate? How many customers will come back in the hours that people are milling about waiting for their meal?

Again, I know this isn't PC. But if I owned property and Iron Gate was going in next door - I'd try to unload the property as soon as I could. Hoping that I can take a small loss now opposed to a larger loss when the potential buyer sees hundreds of people outside waiting around. And if I feel that way, I have to be sympathetic to everyone else nearby.

Why does Iron Gate want to move to an area that is supposedly up-and-coming? Location Location Location. But this location doesn't really benefit Iron Gate, so far as I can tell. Some of their client base drives - and they need a special deal with UP to get the parking they need at this location. Some of their client base walks, and they are moving further away.

COUNTER PROPOSAL: why not move Iron Gate to the section of downtown already devoted to the down-on-their luck? The aforementioned warehouse district is under utilized and has low interest from developers. It is more convenient for the homeless population, should be cheaper land, and offers plenty of areas to park. Concentrate services t make it easier on everyone and, yes, to concentrate the objections (argue all you want, sketchy people cause objections for the purposes of development and perception. Doesn't mean they are bad people... and yes, the problem is with the beholder. But lets face reality.)

#Iknowimahorribleperson
« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 02:16:09 pm by cannon_fodder » Logged

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AngieB
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« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2015, 02:08:14 pm »

So the guy that wants to sell them the building thinks it is a great idea?  Gee, tell me more.  Hey, how about this. Sager can float the loan to Iron Gate with a repayment plan when construction is finished. Iron Gate can pay itself a management fee from that money and not finish the project for more than a decade.

My attitude on this project is simple:

99% chance it hinders development of the area.
<snip>
#Iknowimahorribleperson

I haven't put as much thought into it as you have, but I find myself agreeing with you! Imagine that!  Shocked

I guess #itooamahorribleperson
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Conan71
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« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2015, 02:08:48 pm »


COUNTER PROPOSAL: why not move Iron Gate to the section of downtown already devoted to the down-on-their luck? The aforementioned warehouse district is under utilized and has low interest from developers. It is more convenient for the homeless population, should be cheaper land, and offers plenty of areas to park. Concentrate services t make it easier on everyone and, yes, to concentrate the objections (argue all you want, sketchy people cause objections for the purposes of development and perception. Doesn't mean they are bad people... and yes, the problem is with the beholder. But lets face reality.)

#Iknowimahorribleperson

John 3:16 and the Day Center are both in this area.  Seems to make sense to keep it closer rather than further away from other entities which serve the homeless and down on their luck.
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
swake
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« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2015, 02:22:09 pm »

I agree.

We have three “clusters” of services for the poor already. Pine and Cincinnati, Peoria and Utica and by David Moss. Placing Iron Gate with transit at any one of them makes a lot more sense than in an up and coming area trying to rise out of poverty.
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Breadburner
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WWW
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2015, 02:58:34 pm »

REI....!!!.....Rabble Rabble....!!!
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DTowner
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« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2015, 03:00:01 pm »

I haven't put as much thought into it as you have, but I find myself agreeing with you! Imagine that!  Shocked

I guess #itooamahorribleperson

I always found it amazing that at one time Trinty had both Iron Gate and a day care operating in the same building - until they shut down the day care a few years ago.
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swake
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« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2015, 03:35:42 pm »

I always found it amazing that at one time Trinty had both Iron Gate and a day care operating in the same building - until they shut down the day care a few years ago.

I used to park next to Iron Gate in the old and long gone Tulsa Auto Hotel and I walked passed the waiting crowd every morning. I remember all the Beat-up cars idling on the street, people sleeping off something in all the doorways around the church but worst of all by far  were all the mentally ill. It's a complete failure of our society that these people are on the street and having to eat at soup kitchens but they are and many of them frequent Iron Gate.

People that mutter to themselves and shake sitting the sidewalk, people walking up and down the street screaming at nothing. Ugly arguments between the mentally ill that barely had English words. More than one seemed like they could be violent at any time. It's sad that these people are on the street uncared for and unmedicated, but it's a fact that they are and it makes anywhere that Iron gate is undesirable for anything else.

Put in a location where other needed services are available so that these people can get help without walking all over the city.
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Laramie
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« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2015, 08:35:49 pm »

Iron Gate?


Saw this posted on the Yahoo site today (News 6): http://www.newson6.com/story/29879032/peal-district-community-blindsided-by-charitys-relocation-proposal

« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 08:37:20 pm by Laramie » Logged

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AquaMan
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Just Cruz'n


« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2015, 08:38:03 am »

Anyone here actually walk the streets and businesses at third and Peoria? It isn't the Pearl you're imagining.
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