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August 21, 2018, 07:16:07 pm
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Author Topic: Spaghetti Warehouse closing Mar 2017  (Read 6071 times)
carltonplace
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« Reply #60 on: June 27, 2018, 08:43:11 am »

Hides the drug production

The building has a drug problem? Man this is an epidemic.
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joiei
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« Reply #61 on: June 27, 2018, 08:14:51 pm »

I was just in Springfield, MO last weekend and experienced Commercial St.  Several blocks of renovated storefronts into shops, galleries and restaurants.  This is what we need to experience here  https://static1.squarespace.com/static/574889efcf80a1dfc9f00d7b/t/5abd278c03ce64b96d0f536e/1522345874503/CStreetMap_2018_03_Digitalwpng

more from their page  http://www.historiccstreet.com/history/  I did not see any non-local places.  White River brewery was pouring some decent beers.  Lots of walking traffic, families, couples.  If you haven't been to Springfield in a while I recommend a day trip. 

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« Reply #62 on: June 28, 2018, 09:09:18 am »

The building has a drug problem? Man this is an epidemic.

It’s probably boarded up due to the damage caused this past winter when a frozen sprinkler pipe burst.
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« Reply #63 on: June 28, 2018, 10:15:49 am »

I was just in Springfield, MO last weekend and experienced Commercial St.  Several blocks of renovated storefronts into shops, galleries and restaurants.  This is what we need to experience here  https://static1.squarespace.com/static/574889efcf80a1dfc9f00d7b/t/5abd278c03ce64b96d0f536e/1522345874503/CStreetMap_2018_03_Digitalwpng

more from their page  http://www.historiccstreet.com/history/  I did not see any non-local places.  White River brewery was pouring some decent beers.  Lots of walking traffic, families, couples.  If you haven't been to Springfield in a while I recommend a day trip. 



That is really neat how much that area has grown! It is great the city preserved all of those stretches of old buildings for so long, both downtown and along commerce street. I'm wondering if it was more local laws or if they just kept them mostly occupied throughout the decades and avoided some of the urban sprawl we had here.

Springfield has a small but dense downtown. They don't have the big skyscrapers or many newer buildings like we have in Tulsa, but they have lots of the Victorian/early-1900s buildings that make it feel a bit like an old-fashioned-style downtown with lots of brick facade storefronts. All of Tulsa's stretches like that got demolished to put in bigger buildings (BOK Tower and it's garages) or parking lots. Because of the way Tulsa has been developed (used to be no regard for old buildings), we will never have anything like Commerce Street and that's fine and great for Springfield they've done that so well. Rose District is similar but much smaller and far fewer old buildings. Cherry Street and Brookside have their similarities, but just not at all the same sort of place.
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« Reply #64 on: June 28, 2018, 10:23:32 am »

That is really neat how much that area has grown! It is great the city preserved all of those stretches of old buildings for so long, both downtown and along commerce street. I'm wondering if it was more local laws or if they just kept them mostly occupied throughout the decades and avoided some of the urban sprawl we had here.

Springfield has a small but dense downtown. They don't have the big skyscrapers or many newer buildings like we have in Tulsa, but they have lots of the Victorian/early-1900s buildings that make it feel a bit like an old-fashioned-style downtown with lots of brick facade storefronts. All of Tulsa's stretches like that got demolished to put in bigger buildings (BOK Tower and it's garages) or parking lots. Because of the way Tulsa has been developed (used to be no regard for old buildings), we will never have anything like Commerce Street and that's fine and great for Springfield they've done that so well. Rose District is similar but much smaller and far fewer old buildings. Cherry Street and Brookside have their similarities, but just not at all the same sort of place.

Probably our most intact urban street is Boston Ave. from 3rd to 6th.  It's impressive but lacks the cohesive retail and restaurants like Commercial St.  Though outside of Commercial St Sprinfield is a pretty unremarkable place IMO.  Columbia MO is smaller but has a more vibrant downtown.

Urban renewal took out what was left of anything similar.  A couple other blocks that are mostly intact from that era are 5th St between Boston and Main, Main between Brady and Cameron and Greenwood between Archer and 244.
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« Reply #65 on: June 28, 2018, 02:20:07 pm »

Commercial Street really has been remarkable for its recent development.  I grew up in Springfield and most of those buildings were empty or used furniture stores from the mid-1970s until recently.  However, Commercial St. is several miles north of downtown.  If I recall my Springfield history correctly, it may have even been a separate town at one point that developed along a separate rail line that ran north of town that eventually was gobbled up into the larger city.
 
I would say the closest comparison in Tulsa is Cherry St., although Cherry St. is surrounded by much more affluent and desirable housing and is closer to the downtown core.
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« Reply #66 on: June 29, 2018, 08:22:26 am »

Commercial Street really has been remarkable for its recent development.  I grew up in Springfield and most of those buildings were empty or used furniture stores from the mid-1970s until recently.  However, Commercial St. is several miles north of downtown.  If I recall my Springfield history correctly, it may have even been a separate town at one point that developed along a separate rail line that ran north of town that eventually was gobbled up into the larger city.
 
I would say the closest comparison in Tulsa is Cherry St., although Cherry St. is surrounded by much more affluent and desirable housing and is closer to the downtown core.


It's 1.5 miles north of downtown so it is as far as TU is from downtown. Separate district for sure. Great that they renewed that and didn't demolish all those cool old buildings and building a great strip of seemingly every type of business.
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« Reply #67 on: June 29, 2018, 08:39:01 am »

Probably our most intact urban street is Boston Ave. from 3rd to 6th.  It's impressive but lacks the cohesive retail and restaurants like Commercial St.  Though outside of Commercial St Sprinfield is a pretty unremarkable place IMO.  Columbia MO is smaller but has a more vibrant downtown.

Urban renewal took out what was left of anything similar.  A couple other blocks that are mostly intact from that era are 5th St between Boston and Main, Main between Brady and Cameron and Greenwood between Archer and 244.


And they are reaping the benefits of having people in charge and business owners who actually realized the buildings had value, even when vacant.

South Downtown Tulsa could've been the best urban neighborhood in Oklahoma with possibilities of this kind of strip had they not short-shortsightedly demolished it all. Back then, most people (especially Tulsans, apparently!) didn't realize how neat/historical/precious those old urban buildings were. They were just old ransacked crime-ridden eye sores with no future prospects. To be fair, the cost to fix them up was high and people were moving out of downtown fast so chances of renting them out were slim. But those decisions costed Tulsa the equivalent of another Brady Arts District type area or potential Commerce Street equivalent. Tens of millions in lost value and invaluable lost charm.

It is sad when Tulsa's downtown was far more urban in the 40s all the way up to the 60s when "urban renewal" was beginning. Fortunately, small towns rejected that so they have neat places like Commerce Street.


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« Reply #68 on: June 29, 2018, 08:40:19 am »

Interesting blog about what Tulsa lost with "urban renewal": http://www.tulsagal.net/2010/03/urban-renewal-what-we-lost.html
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« Reply #69 on: June 29, 2018, 09:28:22 am »

Interesting blog about what Tulsa lost with "urban renewal": http://www.tulsagal.net/2010/03/urban-renewal-what-we-lost.html


Thank you so much for posting that link!!   Loved seeing those pics.  Especially the first with the AAA Trading Post - knew Roscoe who ran the place for years.  Great to see that pic!!  Would go to Paul's loans, too but can't remember the people who ran it.  There was another one called Roy Oliver's that was somewhere near there, then moved over to the old Otasco store on east 2.   Rose is the only one left of that old group of shops and it moved to east 2nd during that time, too.  Got robbed at their old store around that time by a couple of idiots, one of whom got a dose of lead poisoning for his effort.

Also, the Rialto and Orpheum theaters were on Main (IIRC) and have been to both to see movies.  I think it was the Orpheum that had some beautiful fancy doors to the restrooms with frosted glass and gold lettering that I remember very well.  Plush carpet, ornate furnishings.  It was very much in the old Hollywood glitz style of the time.  Got to help tear them both down, sadly!





« Last Edit: June 29, 2018, 09:49:31 am by heironymouspasparagus » Logged

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« Reply #70 on: June 29, 2018, 09:48:18 am »


And they are reaping the benefits of having people in charge and business owners who actually realized the buildings had value, even when vacant.

South Downtown Tulsa could've been the best urban neighborhood in Oklahoma with possibilities of this kind of strip had they not short-shortsightedly demolished it all. Back then, most people (especially Tulsans, apparently!) didn't realize how neat/historical/precious those old urban buildings were. They were just old ransacked crime-ridden eye sores with no future prospects. To be fair, the cost to fix them up was high and people were moving out of downtown fast so chances of renting them out were slim. But those decisions costed Tulsa the equivalent of another Brady Arts District type area or potential Commerce Street equivalent. Tens of millions in lost value and invaluable lost charm.

It is sad when Tulsa's downtown was far more urban in the 40s all the way up to the 60s when "urban renewal" was beginning. Fortunately, small towns rejected that so they have neat places like Commerce Street.


Well, some owners may have had foresight, but more likely Springfield’s downtown and Commercial St. buildings survived mostly in tact due to a near complete lack of demand to use those spaces for anything else.  It is hard to convey just how dormant those areas were for 2 decades.  In some ways, some of Tulsa’s interesting architecture fell victim to the fact downtown always maintained a large daytime work force that created the incentives to level old buildings for surface parking lots and new high rise buildings.

And I always love that postcard, even though it does make me sad.
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #71 on: June 29, 2018, 11:49:56 am »

Well, some owners may have had foresight, but more likely Springfield’s downtown and Commercial St. buildings survived mostly in tact due to a near complete lack of demand to use those spaces for anything else.  It is hard to convey just how dormant those areas were for 2 decades.  In some ways, some of Tulsa’s interesting architecture fell victim to the fact downtown always maintained a large daytime work force that created the incentives to level old buildings for surface parking lots and new high rise buildings.

And I always love that postcard, even though it does make me sad.


That's seems a bit ironic at this point. Past economic hindrances contribute to current successes and vice versa (although, to be fair Tulsa's downtown has been booming for a while now, just  not much to renew in South Downtown).

I always thought it was a shame how Okmulgee has a sizable downtown full of beautiful, ornate unused buildings and how that would be amazing if only it were a bit closer to Tulsa because there's nothing else like that close by.
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« Reply #72 on: June 29, 2018, 12:31:27 pm »

That's seems a bit ironic at this point. Past economic hindrances contribute to current successes and vice versa (although, to be fair Tulsa's downtown has been booming for a while now, just  not much to renew in South Downtown).

I always thought it was a shame how Okmulgee has a sizable downtown full of beautiful, ornate unused buildings and how that would be amazing if only it were a bit closer to Tulsa because there's nothing else like that close by.

Sapulpa and McAlester also have good sized downtowns for their size.  And of course Bartlesville has several taller buildings and the famous Price Tower but doesn’t have as many older buildings left.
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« Reply #73 on: June 29, 2018, 01:39:14 pm »

Sapulpa's downtown is doing well.  Pawhuska is being transformed, but not every little town has a rich rancher's wife who is a famous blogger/cookbook author/cooking TV star to make that happen.
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