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December 10, 2018, 08:31:33 pm
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Author Topic: Miss Jackson's/Petty's.....  (Read 59566 times)
SXSW
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« Reply #315 on: October 23, 2018, 08:17:45 am »

News this morning of Bruce G Weber moving to Cherry Street has me wondering what is going on at Utica Square?  Still no news on the Miss Jackson'/Petty's and now losing a longtime jewelry store anchor. 
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #316 on: October 23, 2018, 10:22:45 am »

News this morning of Bruce G Weber moving to Cherry Street has me wondering what is going on at Utica Square?  Still no news on the Miss Jackson'/Petty's and now losing a longtime jewelry store anchor. 

Most likely, they just gave them a better deal. Nicer/newer place for same price. Rents in Utica Square are pretty exorbitant from what I've seen. Maybe evidence that Utica Square isn't quite the retail hot spot it used to be or Bruce G Weber is thinking urban retail is the future. Maybe better visibility at the new spot.

Utica Square has great tenant rates now with almost everything rented and they likely own the place outright so are probably doing great. It's just a shame they bulldozed that one building with no replacement set to go. Maybe they should try something like hotel/housing/more office to diversify.
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« Reply #317 on: October 23, 2018, 10:30:42 am »

News this morning of Bruce G Weber moving to Cherry Street has me wondering what is going on at Utica Square?  Still no news on the Miss Jackson'/Petty's and now losing a longtime jewelry store anchor. 

This thread about this somewhat recently:

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21684.0

Not sure if this has been talked about on a different thread, but hearing that Bruce G Weber is moving out of Utica to make way for Prosperity Bank to take over more room. 

So it was reportedly just that the bank needed more room. I'm guessing Utica Square is really wishing they had that building they demolished (or a new one built) for Bruce G Weber to move into. Missed opportunity for them and big gain for Cherry Street and the new landlords.

Or... what if Bruce G Weber (along their used jewelry shop) was the big tenant who planned to move to that part of Utica Square where Pettys was. Maybe they backed out.
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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #318 on: October 23, 2018, 10:46:40 am »

I think your two posts have hit the mark. Utica Square is probably looking at mainstream upscale (national and reasonably stable) businesses and Bruce G Weber doesn't feel the exclusivity that Utica Square once was. Weber probably got a better deal on Cherry Street and let Utica expand the bank's foot print. It does make me sad thinking about the places that were part of Utica Square that are gone, because it was the upscale locally owned business that fit the area, but the area has changed. Not saying the money is gone, just the demographics of the area. At least it hasn't gone the way of a lot of malls.
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« Reply #319 on: October 23, 2018, 10:49:24 am »

This thread about this somewhat recently:

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=21684.0

So it was reportedly just that the bank needed more room. I'm guessing Utica Square is really wishing they had that building they demolished (or a new one built) for Bruce G Weber to move into. Missed opportunity for them and big gain for Cherry Street and the new landlords.

Or... what if Bruce G Weber (along their used jewelry shop) was the big tenant who planned to move to that part of Utica Square where Pettys was. Maybe they backed out.

That's right I remember hearing about Prosperity Bank expanding.  I agree though Utica Square should look to mixed-use for its new developments.  Basically taking the town center model but applying it to an existing urban shopping center.
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« Reply #320 on: October 23, 2018, 11:16:17 am »

I don't think the Bruce G Weber store was ever technically part of Utica Square; merely adjacent to Utica Square.
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« Reply #321 on: October 23, 2018, 11:36:40 am »

I don't think the Bruce G Weber store was ever technically part of Utica Square; merely adjacent to Utica Square.

True. It was part of the bank building, not listed as part of Utica Square and space is likely owned by the bank.

The big thing is that rather than move next door to Utica Square, they moved about a mile away. It looks like Utica Square did at least have 1 space that could've worked and who knows what else was planned but hasn't been started.
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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #322 on: October 23, 2018, 11:41:03 am »

I don't think the Bruce G Weber store was ever technically part of Utica Square; merely adjacent to Utica Square.

IIRC, that bank was originally Utica National Bank & Trust Co. drive thru location for their primary bank at 1924 S Utica until the FDIC closed it and F&M took over Utica.

https://newsok.com/article/2273248/regulators-close-tulsas-utica-bank-fm-bank-to-open-branch

https://www.tulsaworld.com/archives/utica-national-bank-is-closed-by-fdic-bank-reopens-as/article_a7a76845-bb94-5874-98c1-c1ecb7264723.html
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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #323 on: October 23, 2018, 11:53:51 am »

Here is an aerial photo from 1967 showing the building and the drive through in the upper left corner.

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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #324 on: October 23, 2018, 12:02:57 pm »

At one time it was part of Utica Square.

1953-03-26   UTICA SQUARE NATIONAL BANK OF TULSA located at 1702 EAST 21ST STREET, TULSA, OK was established as a National Bank.
1971-06-10   UTICA SQUARE NATIONAL BANK OF TULSA was renamed to UTICA NATIONAL BANK & TRUST COMPANY.
1975-07-21   UTICA NATIONAL BANK & TRUST COMPANY moved to 1924 SOUTH UTICA TULSA, OK.
1989-07-21   UTICA NATIONAL BANK & TRUST COMPANY failed. F & M BANK AND TRUST COMPANY, THE acquired the remaining assets.

https://www.ffiec.gov/nicpubweb/nicweb/InstitutionHistory.aspx?parID_RSSD=410355&parDT_END=19890720

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In No. 74-1082, Town and Country has appealed the denial of intervention. American has appealed the granting of summary judgment in No. 74-1083. There has been consolidation of the cases and joint arguments have been made.

The position of American at the trial was that the Comptroller's approval was unlawful because it resulted in the creation of a subsidiary of a bank holding company. There is also the contention that the application should have been stayed pending determination by the Federal Reserve Board. The bank holding company issue was raised by the Town and Country organizers who requested that the Comptroller refer this holding company issue to the Federal Reserve Board and allow his decision to abide the action of the Federal Reserve Board.

It would appear that the District Court had jurisdiction to determine whether the Comptroller acted improperly in failing to refer those issues to the Federal Reserve Board pursuant to 28 U.S.C. 1331. On the other hand, it seems equally clear that the District Court lacked jurisdiction to determine the merits of the alleged violation of the Holding Company Act.

Although we do not have jurisdiction to determine the merits of whether Union Bank is a subsidiary of a bank holding company thus requiring Reserve Board approval, we do have the authority to determine whether or not this issue is substantial or frivolous, and whether the Federal Reserve Board should have an opportunity to consider it. In our view the question is not a frivolous one because:

The organizers of Union are also closely connected with the Utica National Bank. Victor M. Thompson is president and is a director. Calvert, LaFortune, Saunders, Horkey and Zink are all directors of Utica. Victor B. Thompson is the son of Victor M. Thompson. Mr. Horkey is the only one of the group who will not be a director of Union. There would be other directors but we are not acquainted with their identity.

Secondly, Utica is a subsidiary of a registered bank holding company, Helmerich and Payne, Inc. (H & P), which owns or controls over 36% Of Utica's stock. Mr. LaFortune (and his family) own 10 to 15%. Calvert and V. M. Thompson each own about 5%. Horkey is executive vice president and a director of H & P.

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/503/784/219543/
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 12:08:54 pm by dbacksfan 2.0 » Logged
DTowner
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« Reply #325 on: October 23, 2018, 12:17:41 pm »

It seems more likely than not that the current Utica Square owners have no intention of investing the money necessary to build anything on the former Miss Jackson/Petty’s spot and it will remain a fenced off grassy patch until/unless the current owners sell.
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« Reply #326 on: October 23, 2018, 12:34:37 pm »

At one time it was part of Utica Square.

1953-03-26   UTICA SQUARE NATIONAL BANK OF TULSA located at 1702 EAST 21ST STREET, TULSA, OK was established as a National Bank.
1971-06-10   UTICA SQUARE NATIONAL BANK OF TULSA was renamed to UTICA NATIONAL BANK & TRUST COMPANY.
1975-07-21   UTICA NATIONAL BANK & TRUST COMPANY moved to 1924 SOUTH UTICA TULSA, OK.
1989-07-21   UTICA NATIONAL BANK & TRUST COMPANY failed. F & M BANK AND TRUST COMPANY, THE acquired the remaining assets.

https://www.ffiec.gov/nicpubweb/nicweb/InstitutionHistory.aspx?parID_RSSD=410355&parDT_END=19890720

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/503/784/219543/

I don't want to go too far into the weeds on this, but just having partially common ownership does make the bank or its building part of the Utica Square Shopping Center.
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« Reply #327 on: October 23, 2018, 01:13:16 pm »

It seems more likely than not that the current Utica Square owners have no intention of investing the money necessary to build anything on the former Miss Jackson/Petty’s spot and it will remain a fenced off grassy patch until/unless the current owners sell.

It does seem that Utica is less of an emphasis for the younger Helmerichs since Walt died a few years ago. It might be better if the center were sold.
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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #328 on: October 23, 2018, 01:35:38 pm »

Okay, according to the Assessor's records, that corner is owned by F AND M BANK AND TRUST COMPANY C/O PROSPERITY BANK. They purchased the property in 1990 which coincides with their take over of Utica Bank.


http://www.assessor.tulsacounty.org/assessor-property.php

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« Reply #329 on: October 23, 2018, 01:48:37 pm »

It does seem that Utica is less of an emphasis for the younger Helmerichs since Walt died a few years ago. It might be better if the center were sold.

Utica Square has done well over the years being an alternative to the mall and the place for upscale shopping in Tulsa.  It's also a community meeting place with events like Fifth Night and the Christmas lights/Santa house.  It could be more of a mixed-use core for midtown if you could mix more housing into the existing retail and restaurant offerings, consolidate parking into a couple garages and develop the corners so it feels less like a shopping center and more like an urban neighborhood.  Kansas City's Country Club Plaza or Denver's Cherry Creek North are good regional examples to follow.

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Not saying the money is gone, just the demographics of the area.

The demographics are probably the best they can be for upscale retail literally being in the center of some of the most expensive neighborhoods in Tulsa.  It's been interesting to see the office development that has been attracted to the area with Utica Plaza, Utica Place and the new Bumgarner project at 21st & Xanthus.  Outside of downtown and the 61st & Yale area there really isn't another cluster like it with probably close to 1 million SF of office in that square mile.  If you could get a hotel built (long been rumored for the former H&P site at 21st & Utica) and integrate condos and apartments above retail it could really be a vibrant area.  You already have a huge employer (St John) across the street that isn't going anywhere.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 01:50:54 pm by SXSW » Logged

 
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