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September 22, 2020, 11:57:13 pm
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Author Topic: City eyes 11th and Lewis as new site for Route 66 museum  (Read 2715 times)
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« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2020, 11:02:15 pm »

That would be a great addition at 11th & Lewis.  What a transformation for that area which not long ago was still pretty sketchy.
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tulsabug
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« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2020, 07:21:37 am »

Great idea but total crap design of a building. It's a Route 66 museum - why not make it Art Deco? Make the building be an homage to 66. It needs to be a destination in itself. I'm talking curves, neon, colorful frescoes, giant ball of twine on top on a rotating pedestal - something!! That design is hipster boring and one I'd drive right by without even glancing over - honestly it might as well say Route 66 Mini-Storage.

And don't even get me started on that crap building across from the Mother Road Market.
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shavethewhales
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« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2020, 08:53:35 am »

Art Deco would have been better, but it's still a vast improvement for the area and incorporates a ton of good elements. I still think the museum is kind of a joke being so small, but maybe it gets started here and can get a larger space down the road (literally and figuratively).
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tulsabug
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« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2020, 10:15:17 am »

Art Deco would have been better, but it's still a vast improvement for the area and incorporates a ton of good elements. I still think the museum is kind of a joke being so small, but maybe it gets started here and can get a larger space down the road (literally and figuratively).

Yes - it's certainly better than nothing (ie - the giant concrete pad that's there now) but honestly they should start over and do it right the first time and this time turn off the autopilot function in autocad (or maybe they hired the laziest architect they could find and I say that speaking as a former architecture student). Not to mention, before more infill is added to the area, the city needs to figure out the street situation. Now that most of 11th is going to be two-lanes with mostly unused bike lanes on both sides, adding more people living, working, and shopping on it is a real problem. Two-lanes can't support that kind of traffic as they can't support the traffic that's already on 11th. People are going to start avoiding the area due to the absurd congestion in every direction which is going to hurt the businesses on it. 11th & Lewis is already an unholy clusterfark - adding more people and less street is not going to help the situation. Sure we can dream that everyone is going to hop on their bikes and pedal down there instead of getting in their cars but in the real world that's not going to happen.
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LandArchPoke
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« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2020, 12:16:20 pm »

Yes - it's certainly better than nothing (ie - the giant concrete pad that's there now) but honestly they should start over and do it right the first time and this time turn off the autopilot function in autocad (or maybe they hired the laziest architect they could find and I say that speaking as a former architecture student). Not to mention, before more infill is added to the area, the city needs to figure out the street situation. Now that most of 11th is going to be two-lanes with mostly unused bike lanes on both sides, adding more people living, working, and shopping on it is a real problem. Two-lanes can't support that kind of traffic as they can't support the traffic that's already on 11th. People are going to start avoiding the area due to the absurd congestion in every direction which is going to hurt the businesses on it. 11th & Lewis is already an unholy clusterfark - adding more people and less street is not going to help the situation. Sure we can dream that everyone is going to hop on their bikes and pedal down there instead of getting in their cars but in the real world that's not going to happen.

As a previous architecture study, you should look into road diets and the benefits of them. Reducing 11th Street to two lane is needed, as is it needed for most streets near Downtown. Traffic isn't a bad thing. Slowing traffic actually provides enormous benefits to business along a route. It gives more time for people in their cars to see things versus driving 50-60 mph past a business. Expanding roads in the urban part of Tulsa was a mistake that we made long ago, and the city is just now getting around to correcting it.

I could go into thousands of examples of two lane roads in cities much larger than Tulsa with 10x more density and they do just fine. Perfect example would be DC, specifically look at the Georgetown neighborhood. Look at Wisconsin Avenue - it's two lane surrounded by other two lane roads (exception being M Street). Yet it's by far the densest retail street in DC, has a nearby University, one of the largest medical centers in the region, etc. Wisconsin carries thousands of more cars per day than 11th Street - 28,000 per day which is almost as much as 71st, Yale, etc which are much larger. We waste so much of our tax dollars every year trying to maintain infrastructure we've over built and isn't needed. Just so people don't have to be 'inconvenienced' by not being able to drive 60 on an arterial street or heaven forbid someone has to sit through 1 or 2 cycles of traffic lights that adds a minute or two to their drive. 
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TheArtist
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« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2020, 07:14:36 pm »

As for the museum being "small", am I right in it looking like it might be about 9,000 sq feet? If you do it right you can make a lot of magic in 9,000 sq feet.  My new place on Route 66 which will have a Tulsa Art Deco Museum component in total is about 2,500 sq ft and about half that is the Art Deco part.

I could create an incredible world you could spend hours in if I had 9,000 sq feet! 
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"When you only have two pennies left in the world, buy a loaf of bread with one, and a lily with the other."-Chinese proverb. "Arts a staple. Like bread or wine or a warm coat in winter. Those who think it is a luxury have only a fragment of a mind. Mans spirit grows hungry for art in the same way h
Oil Capital
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« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2020, 08:23:40 am »

As for the museum being "small", am I right in it looking like it might be about 9,000 sq feet? If you do it right you can make a lot of magic in 9,000 sq feet.  My new place on Route 66 which will have a Tulsa Art Deco Museum component in total is about 2,500 sq ft and about half that is the Art Deco part.

I could create an incredible world you could spend hours in if I had 9,000 sq feet! 

I believe it's actually planned to be 12,000 square feet, which FWIW appears to be about the same size as the one in Sapulpa, which is focused on cars...
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buffalodan
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« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2020, 09:45:31 am »

So I'm kinda salty since my team got this pulled out from under this, but we had integrated the BRT bus stop in our design so that it was implement as part of the patio. Are they also going with 58 parking spaces for that entire area? I was thinking that a parking garage was required for the property. I think a garage would have really helped integrate it with MRM as well as the properties on the east all the way to Atlanta.

But anyway, I think it will be great for the area and hope it works out. Putting that many more residents in the area will be helpful and should help solidify the BRT corridor.
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« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2020, 10:05:43 am »

So I'm kinda salty since my team got this pulled out from under this, but we had integrated the BRT bus stop in our design so that it was implement as part of the patio. Are they also going with 58 parking spaces for that entire area? I was thinking that a parking garage was required for the property. I think a garage would have really helped integrate it with MRM as well as the properties on the east all the way to Atlanta.

But anyway, I think it will be great for the area and hope it works out. Putting that many more residents in the area will be helpful and should help solidify the BRT corridor.

Looks like that area in blue is a multi-level garage, not sure how many total spaces it will have though.  It would make sense to have some public parking for both the museum and MRM as well as the space labeled "restaurant" on 11th (looks pretty small, probably more like a coffee shop).
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LandArchPoke
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« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2020, 11:08:49 am »

Looks like that area in blue is a multi-level garage, not sure how many total spaces it will have though.  It would make sense to have some public parking for both the museum and MRM as well as the space labeled "restaurant" on 11th (looks pretty small, probably more like a coffee shop).

It does appear there is a multi level parking garage. Seems like the museum could easily be converted to retail uses if at some point money can be raised to expand the museum. I think if we really want something as a regional draw, it needs to be much larger than 12,000 sq. ft. Right now this is probably more of something people would stop at MRM and then walk over to the museum.

Only thing I hope they change is the odd steel fencing thing they have that faces 11th Street. They should just keep the lawn area open to the street the entire frontage instead of having a fence people have to walk around to get to the lawn area. That would just section off part of the sidewalk and create a really odd pedestrian environment and would make the open space far less inviting. I really don't like that part.

Outside of that, I think this would be a good addition to the area. 
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