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Author Topic: Human Garbage and the Waco Massacre  (Read 17038 times)
Vashta Nerada
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« Reply #90 on: February 01, 2016, 08:02:06 pm »

Wrong again .....Corrections officer.....But that doesn't fit your retarded mantra....


DENVER — A weekend brawl at a Denver motorcycle show that left one dead and seven others injured was between a club of armed off-duty law enforcement and another group, lawyers for both biker organizations said Sunday.
Lawyers believe Denver police are releasing few details because the Iron Order membership includes law enforcement officers.

http://gazette.com/attorney-feud-between-motorcycle-clubs-started-deadly-brawl-at-denver-coliseum/article/1568993

Only criminals believe law enforcement to be the bad guys so if you want to socialize with criminals or if you are a criminal don't come around us.
  --Iron Order website






http://www.motorcycleprofilingproject.com/denver-motorcycle-expo-shooting-national-council-of-clubs-press-release/
http://www.agingrebel.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Derick-Duran.jpg  

The shooter (pictured above with gun still in hand moments after the murder) is a Colorado Department of Corrections officer named Derrick “Kong” Duran. Duran lives in Longmont, Colorado and is the vice-president of the Firestone, Colorado chapter of the Iron Order. Duran shot a second Mongol in the stomach during the incident. That man remained in critical condition on Monday morning.

The fight began when intoxicated members of the Iron Order approached a tee-shirt booth operated by the Mongols and tried to intimidate the Mongols and their prospective patrons. Three Mongols asked the Iron Order members to move on. The Iron Order members shoved a Mongol and a fist fight ensued. Duran then brandished a handgun and threatened to shoot the three Mongols. Multiple sources have described Duran as drunk. When the three Mongols attempted to disarm Duran he shot two of them. Duran was detained for questioning by police but was not arrested.



http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2016/01/31/deadly-brawl-at-denver-motorcycle-show-was-between-rival-clubs-and-one-of-them-consists-mostly-of-police-and-military-personnel

« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 04:36:39 pm by Vashta Nerada » Logged
cannon_fodder
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« Reply #91 on: February 02, 2016, 08:10:02 am »

Outlaw bikers registering with the Denver Convention Center to have a T-Shirt booth and Law Enforcement Officers setting up an "outlaw" motorcycle club...

So the drunk and unruly police club with hidden firearms goes up to the registered T-shirt booth of the outlaw motorcycle club...

wait, what?
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 08:16:04 am by cannon_fodder » Logged

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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #92 on: February 02, 2016, 10:11:58 am »


So what are a bunch of LEOs doing wearing double rocker patches with the MC patch?  That’s very clearly identification as an “outlaw” club.



Asked and answered.
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Vashta Nerada
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« Reply #93 on: February 02, 2016, 07:54:41 pm »

Outlaw bikers registering with the Denver Convention Center to have a T-Shirt booth and Law Enforcement Officers setting up an "outlaw" motorcycle club...

So the drunk and unruly police club with hidden firearms goes up to the registered T-shirt booth of the outlaw motorcycle club...

wait, what?

"Feared for my life" is the universal get-out-of-jail-free card for cops, and might explain why no one has been arrested.
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Conan71
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« Reply #94 on: February 02, 2016, 08:56:37 pm »

"Feared for my life" is the universal get-out-of-jail-free card for cops, and might explain why no one has been arrested.


Drunk and in possession of a firearm is a free trip to jail for anyone else.
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« Reply #95 on: February 03, 2016, 08:44:21 am »

Drunk and in possession of a firearm is a free trip to jail for anyone else.

There's an argument that stand your ground doesn't apply if you are intoxicated. The reasoning being that you 1) shouldn't have a firearm in your possession while intoxicated (a crime in itself) and 2) shouldn't reasonably rely on the judgment of an intoxicated person to use deadly force. I don't do criminal defense work, so I can't pull the case on point --- but the logic is sound in my eyes.

Can you fathom this going the other way? 

"An intoxicated member of a motorcycle gang approached a law enforcement booth at a motorcycle expo and started a confrontation. As the confrontation escalated the law enforcement officials encouraged the motorcycle gang members to move on. Instead of moving on, the gang members continue to escalate the situation until one of the intoxicated gang members pulled a firearm and began shooting members of law enforcement. One member who was manning the booth was killed, another is in critical condition.

No charged were filed against the intoxicated gang member because the investigation is ongoing.

Law enforcement officials then drew their own firearms and heroically execute the entirety of the rival gang criminal gang. Any survivors of the criminal gang will be charged with felony murder. The surviving law enforcement officers receive their medals this afternoon."
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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #96 on: February 03, 2016, 11:05:08 am »

There's an argument that stand your ground doesn't apply if you are intoxicated. The reasoning being that you 1) shouldn't have a firearm in your possession while intoxicated (a crime in itself) and 2) shouldn't reasonably rely on the judgment of an intoxicated person to use deadly force. I don't do criminal defense work, so I can't pull the case on point --- but the logic is sound in my eyes.

Can you fathom this going the other way?  

"An intoxicated member of a motorcycle gang approached a law enforcement booth at a motorcycle expo and started a confrontation. As the confrontation escalated the law enforcement officials encouraged the motorcycle gang members to move on. Instead of moving on, the gang members continue to escalate the situation until one of the intoxicated gang members pulled a firearm and began shooting members of law enforcement. One member who was manning the booth was killed, another is in critical condition.

No charged were filed against the intoxicated gang member because the investigation is ongoing.

Law enforcement officials then drew their own firearms and heroically execute the entirety of the rival gang criminal gang. Any survivors of the criminal gang will be charged with felony murder. The surviving law enforcement officers receive their medals this afternoon."

But CF, you are forgetting what Vashta and Lisa Ling told us about the Mongols. They are just a bunch of fuzzy teddy bears that do benevolent things like toys for tot's runs, and they are just a bunch of guys that would not harm anyone and just enjoy riding as a group. Their life style is just a big misunderstanding.  Roll Eyes (sarcasm intended)

Quote


EX-ATF agent tells CNN he helped agency incite wars between motorcycle clubs:
https://www.facebook.com/Ling/posts/10153361678443323

Just wanted to post this exchange that I had on FB with a former federal law enforcement agent who says that he, along with the BET--Biker Enforcement Team, incited war between the Mongols and Hells Angels that lead to a number of deaths.

Dear Lisa,
I see you're doing a segment on the MONGOLS MC, I am a retired Law Enforcement person who was in the BET Unit=Biker Enforcement Team. I testified at two RICO cases involving the Hells Angels. FYI it was the Dago Unit of the BET team that had targeted the HA's and Mongols to war with each other in he early 70's as our unit tried to get the HA's and Mongols to go to war. Sad to say it worked and Jingles and Red were shot dead on the freeway so long ago.

You are an excellent reporter and hope that on your MONGOLS story dig into there DAGO chapter and how they and the HA's went to war you will see it was due to our BET Team

(Lisa Ling) Do you regret what happened with DAGO? Just curious

(Scott Barnes) ·Yes, so very much. One MONGOL i arrested Brant Rudolph Honkanen was the one we (BET) used to get the HA's and Mongols to war, I feel we were deeply responsible for the (BET) HA's Hit on Jingles and Red in DAGO. Then we did some deplorable things from one state to another all in the name of Justice, I recently told George Christie of the HA's who is now a CNN biker consultant , he knew we BET were coming after so many bikers with false evidence. So yes i regret it all, the only thing i do not regret is being able to return Sonny Barger of the HA's his late fathers Bible back to him at the RICO case so long ago. It was a very hard time to be a " Corrupt" cop as a ruse to set up people, make false arrest and ruin innocent peoples lives i will always regret.

(Lisa Ling) Thank you very much for your candor Scott. I met a lot of decent, hard working Mongols while with them. Sure, they have a violent history, but people don't know the whole story.

(Scott Barnes) ·Yes, you are very spot on, I too know many Hell's Angels , Mongols and other MC's who do plenty of good, have integrity, and help many in need. I think our government has created an atmosphere of fear to the American People on them. Sad to say i too was part of this mongering that rumor . Glad I'm retired and know the truth.

(Scott Barnes) · Hopefully tonight's show will show the American people many members of the club are caring wonderful decent people.

Dear Lisa,
You did one incredible job on The Mongol Nation, you aired things never before known. Your segment was a home run and actually touched and changed many people who sent me messages on your show.

Even many Feds who taped it and watched it were surprised , you really did a great job. Glad to see this new younger group of club members are much more respectful, honorable and caring than when i went after them in the 70's.

So happy to see the change is positive and is welcomed I hope the Feds will stop targeting them and look at wall street. Thank You for a job well done.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2016, 11:06:54 am by dbacksfan 2.0 » Logged
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #97 on: February 03, 2016, 11:09:41 am »

There's an argument that stand your ground doesn't apply if you are intoxicated. The reasoning being that you 1) shouldn't have a firearm in your possession while intoxicated (a crime in itself) and 2) shouldn't reasonably rely on the judgment of an intoxicated person to use deadly force. I don't do criminal defense work, so I can't pull the case on point --- but the logic is sound in my eyes.

Can you fathom this going the other way? 

"An intoxicated member of a motorcycle gang approached a law enforcement booth at a motorcycle expo and started a confrontation. As the confrontation escalated the law enforcement officials encouraged the motorcycle gang members to move on. Instead of moving on, the gang members continue to escalate the situation until one of the intoxicated gang members pulled a firearm and began shooting members of law enforcement. One member who was manning the booth was killed, another is in critical condition.

No charged were filed against the intoxicated gang member because the investigation is ongoing.

Law enforcement officials then drew their own firearms and heroically execute the entirety of the rival gang criminal gang. Any survivors of the criminal gang will be charged with felony murder. The surviving law enforcement officers receive their medals this afternoon."


Last time I read Oklahoma's law there was something about intoxication nullifying your right to carry...and there were criminal penalties associated with.

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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #98 on: February 03, 2016, 11:12:40 am »

But CF, you are forgetting what Vashta and Lisa Ling told us about the Mongols. They are just a bunch of fuzzy teddy bears that do benevolent things like toys for tot's runs, and they are just a bunch of guys that would not harm anyone and just enjoy riding as a group. Their life style is just a big misunderstanding.  Roll Eyes (sarcasm intended)



Mongols do the toy run thing.  But they are first and foremost, like Hell's Angels and various other 1%er's, a criminal organization.  Doesn't mean LE has the right to provide summary execution. 


They should at least get a fair trial, then hang' em!!



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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

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What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
cannon_fodder
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« Reply #99 on: February 03, 2016, 02:04:35 pm »

Last time I read Oklahoma's law there was something about intoxication nullifying your right to carry...and there were criminal penalties associated with.

The laws on carrying a weapon are ignored by most people. Criminals, sure. But also by most people with permits. My friends and even family who have licenses, even those who are police officers, regularly carry weapons while intoxicated, in arenas, bars, concerts, etc. All against the law of course.

21 OS 1289.9
Quote
It shall be unlawful for any person to carry or use shotguns, rifles or pistols in any circumstances while under the influence of beer, intoxicating liquors or any hallucinogenic, or any unlawful or unprescribed drug, and it shall be unlawful for any person to carry or use shotguns, rifles or pistols when under the influence of any drug prescribed by a licensed physician if the aftereffects of such consumption affect mental, emotional or physical processes to a degree that would result in abnormal behavior. Any person convicted of a violation of the provisions of this section shall be punished as provided in Section 1289.15 of this title.
http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=69765

You also can't carry anywhere that serves alcohol, even if you aren't drinking...

21 OS 1272.1
Quote
A. It shall be unlawful for any person to carry or possess any weapon designated in Section 1272 of this title in any establishment where low-point beer, as defined by Section 163.2 of Title 37 of the Oklahoma Statutes, or alcoholic beverages, as defined by Section 506 of Title 37 of the Oklahoma Statutes, are consumed. . . .

Provided further, nothing in this section shall be interpreted to authorize any peace officer in actual physical possession of a weapon to consume low-point beer or alcoholic beverages, except in the authorized line of duty as an undercover officer.
http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=69741

Even a police officer is not allowed to be in actual physical possession of a weapon and consume alcohol. I assume Colorado has similar laws in this regard, or even stricter. All that to say, our friend the motorcycle biker gang shouldn't have had weapons at an event serving alcohol if they were off duty. They should never have a firearm if they are intoxicated.

Do you think my friends who carry would have just been let go?
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #100 on: February 03, 2016, 03:37:56 pm »

The laws on carrying a weapon are ignored by most people. Criminals, sure. But also by most people with permits. My friends and even family who have licenses, even those who are police officers, regularly carry weapons while intoxicated, in arenas, bars, concerts, etc. All against the law of course.


Do you think my friends who carry would have just been let go?



No they would not have just been let go.  Double standard hard at work....


It's one of those things like drunk driving - it's a misdemeanor in most cases, so who cares....

Even drunk driving and killing someone is not really considered any big deal - reference the high esteem that Laura Bush has in the country as a whole, even though she killed her high school 'sweetheart' driving drunk.  (Yeah, I know...big reach...)




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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
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« Reply #101 on: February 03, 2016, 05:40:17 pm »


EX-ATF agent tells CNN he helped agency incite wars between motorcycle clubs:
https://www.facebook.com/Ling/posts/10153361678443323


And of course the irony is that the founders and current president of the Iron Order motorcycle gang is ATF.
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WWW
« Reply #102 on: February 05, 2016, 06:46:06 am »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el4qyJFJmbI#t=158

This might make spammys head explode....
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Vashta Nerada
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« Reply #103 on: February 06, 2016, 04:28:03 pm »

Even a police officer is not allowed to be in actual physical possession of a weapon and consume alcohol. I assume Colorado has similar laws in this regard, or even stricter. All that to say, our friend the motorcycle biker gang shouldn't have had weapons at an event serving alcohol if they were off duty. They should never have a firearm if they are intoxicated.

Do you think my friends who carry would have just been let go?


"It's almost like they are playing dress-up on the weekend and acting out what their perception of an outlaw gang is," said David Devereaux, a spokesman for the National Council of Clubs, which represents hundreds of motorcycle groups. "They create aggressive situations with other motorcycle clubs in opposition to the culture."
No one has been arrested (in last weeks Denver homicide), adding to the frustration of other groups that complain Iron Order members pick fights, then use their law enforcement connections to avoid prosecution.


https://www.policeone.com/off-duty/articles/71399006-No-arrests-after-Denver-brawl-between-biker-clubs-off-duty-LEOs/





Iron Order TRU Training


The confrontation in Denver last Saturday that led to the murder of Mongol Motorcycle Club patch holder Victor “Nubs” Mendoza by Iron Order Motorcycle Club member Derrick “Kong” Duran, was not merely premeditated but also rehearsed.

The Iron Order includes a “Training and Response Unit,” which the club calls TRU. It exists to prepare club members for confrontations with club outsiders and subsequent interviews with police. TRU members wear a Maltese cross on their vests that includes the letters “T,” “R” and “U” and the number “915” on the arms of the cross. They are typically policemen and they report directly to the club’s international sergeant at arms.

According to Iron Order club documents, “The TRU member must be telephone and email responsive ALWAYS. A TRU member cannot be out of touch for more than 30 MINUTES. This may sound unreasonable, but I wish to place you into the mind of the member who is having a major confrontation with another club or confusing law enforcement and places a call, which is not answered. That is unacceptable.”

According to a PowerPoint presentation the club uses to orient new members, “TRU was designed to educate brothers of the Iron Order MC on the Standard Operating Procedures (SOP) regarding dealing with the: Sidewalk Commandos, 1%ers, Police” and “Sweet Butts.”

The presentation exemplifies the cartoonishly macho posturing that differentiates the Iron Order from the motorcycle clubs it seeks to dominate. The slide show defines “Sidewalk Commandos”  as “weekend warriors that do not wear a patch and hang around clubs or just think they are close to clubs. They love to start sh$t, and are more like women than actual men. They enjoy making sh$t up between two clubs just so they can watch the clubs kick the sh$t out of each other. They usually do not get involved in the altercation but sit back and enjoy the show. These mutts need to be shut down very quickly and in some case harshly.”

The orientation does not commit to writing what Iron Order officers mean by “harshly.”

In a comment published on The Aging Rebel on January 26, four days before the confrontation in Denver, Iron Order international vice-president Michael “Cgar” Crouse wrote, “All the sidewalk commandos here do is instigate until a situation arises that results in someone getting hurt or losing their lives. The hater pages and (The Aging Rebel) are directly responsible for that.” Crouse is a Lieutenant Colonel assigned to the U.S. Army Reserve Command at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. In the past, Crouse has used his military connections to reassign and move Iron Order members suspected of crimes and to gather personal information on veterans and reservists he considers to be enemies of the Iron Order.

The PowerPoint presentation for new members also defines, “Biker chicks – the other sidewalk commando,” as objective enemies of the club. “Sweet butts, biker chicks, biker whores and so forth can be a huge pain in the as in the MC world,” the presentation explains. “They love to watch MCs fight each other, they love the attention. Recommend (sic) you do not involve yourselves with women from other clubs. Do not listen to the sh$t biker whores spew from their mouths If a biker whore says hey we can go to this outlaw bar because I know Outlaw Jim – do not listen to hear (sic) – she is setting you up for a bad night.”

Most of the orientation for new members by TRU members involves role play exercises that help new members rehearse confrontations with members of other clubs and the resulting interactions with police. "An attack on one brother, is an attack on us all.”

The Iron Order also distributes a written list of “Unwritten Rules” that, together with numerous confrontations with outsiders in the last two years, betrays what TRU training is actually about.

Rule eleven in that list states: “When one brother is assaulted every brother responds in force with no mercy. There is no quarter given. The brothers do whatever they have to do to eliminate the violence and neutralize the threat. The aggressor or aggressors are sent away with a strong message to everyone they ever meet to never pick hands up to a brother of the IOMC for any reason.”

TRU members repeatedly rehearse and critique other members, not just new members, on how to behave in a confrontation that will end with the use of deadly force and what to say to police afterward.

An Iron Order “friends and foe” directive also distributed to new members states, for example, the Outlaws Motorcycle Club "has been an adversary since day one with the IOMC. They have constantly been a challenge about territory and what they have said is ‘disrespect’ because we do not comply to protocol and do not ask them permission to do anything. Caution should always be taken whenever there is an Outlaw around. Do not ignore them and do not say anything negative to anyone outside of the IOMC about them. If they outnumber you it is best to leave in a non aggressive way showing no fear. If they come up to you, offer to shake their hand and use a proper introduction for an MC. That means you say your name, your office and Iron Order MC. He will do the same. They spin all encounters or statements and lie to meet whatever goals they want. Never trust them to be truthful. If the OL starts intimidation tactics by asking, “Who the fu@k are you guys?” or “Who gave you permission to wear those colors” etc. you need to refer them to your President or Regional Director. They only fight if they outnumber you or have no chance of losing a fight.”







Cook, who also serves as a police detective in Missouri, called the altercation part of the Iron Order's "ongoing saga."
"There have been a lot of little episodes here and there involving these guys," Cook added.

Founded in 2004 by a former Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agent, the Iron Order has been rapidly expanding. It's known for having a base of law enforcement and former military members.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2016, 04:23:03 pm by Vashta Nerada » Logged
Conan71
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« Reply #104 on: February 08, 2016, 08:18:44 pm »

Several reasons the patch-holder lifestyle never appealed to me:

Why ride around looking for conflict?
Why would I give the title to my hard-earned motorcycle to a gang of criminals?
Meth is hard on the teeth, family, and well- I just didn’t have 20 years of my life to devote to it.
Riding like an a**hole at high speeds through traffic just isn’t my thing.
Being told by someone else when and how to ride at high speeds through traffic really never appealed to me.
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
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