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Author Topic: Human Garbage and the Waco Massacre  (Read 17027 times)
patric
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« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2015, 09:27:07 am »

The old guy at about 47:45 is "telling" the cops off....shame ya can't hear what he is saying...


Arresting an entire restaurant full of witnesses, forcing a mass gag order, then wiping their cellphones clean doesnt make for good "transparency."
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2015, 02:40:12 pm »


Arresting an entire restaurant full of witnesses, forcing a mass gag order, then wiping their cellphones clean doesnt make for good "transparency."


Kinda puts the lie to the whole "land of the free" thing, doesn't it?

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« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2015, 09:09:29 pm »


Kinda puts the lie to the whole "land of the free" thing, doesn't it?


Waco-area officials under scrutiny in biker shootout case
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/state/headlines/20150913-waco-area-officials-under-scrutiny-in-biker-shootout-case.ece


WACO — The secrecy that enshrouds the investigation into a biker shootout in May that left nine people dead and led to the mass arrest of 177 people is hardly surprising in this city, where public scrutiny is rare and unwelcome.

On the banks of the Brazos River in Central Texas, Waco and the surrounding county are largely run by a close-knit circle of judges, prosecutors and law enforcement that defense lawyers complain leads local agencies to close ranks in the aftermath of this most recent calamity.

It's a city where a district judge and district attorney are former law partners, the mayor is the son of a former mayor, the sheriff comes from a long line of lawmen and Waco pioneers and the sheriff's brother is the district attorney's chief investigator.

Bikers and public watchdogs have criticized authorities here for how they've handled the investigation, citing the mass arrests in which people were held for days or weeks on $1 million bonds without sufficient evidence to support such actions four months after the shootings.

No formal charges have been made, and it remains unclear whose bullets, including police bullets, struck the dead and injured, or when cases will be presented to a grand jury, which is currently led by a Waco police detective.

"I don't know of any defense lawyer who hasn't looked at the facts of this case and gasped," said Grant Scheiner, a criminal defense attorney in Houston not connected to the bikers' case.

Waco police, McLennan County prosecutors and judges refused to comment — citing a gag order written by the DA — but law enforcement staunchly defend their actions, including the 12 shots that the police chief said officers fired into the melee after bikers allegedly opened fire on them.

The violence erupted May 17 before a meeting of a coalition of motorcycle clubs that advocates rider safety. Police have said two rival biker gangs got into a confrontation that turned deadly when one group of bikers opened fire on another outside a Twin Peaks restaurant.

Some 177 people were arrested and remained in custody until their bonds were reduced. Defense attorneys have been critical of how the cases have been processed, accusing District Attorney Abel Reyna of writing "fill-in-the-blank" arrest affidavits. A police officer testified a justice of the peace approved the affidavits without making any individual determination of probable cause.

In the criminal case of one of the defendants, Reyna's former law partner, District Judge Matt Johnson, issued a gag order as written by Reyna.

Many bikers who previously told The Associated Press they were innocent bystanders are now reluctant to speak further because of the gag order.

Although police and the district attorney described last spring everyone who was taken into custody as criminals, an Associated Press review of a Texas Department of Public Safety database found no convictions listed under the names and birthdates of more than two-thirds of those arrested.

Justifying the mass arrests, Sheriff Parnell McNamara said, "A message was sent to the whole country that we will not tolerate this type of disorder in our community."

McNamara describes the county's criminal justice system as a close-knit Christian "posse" of Baylor University graduates committed to "putting away as many hard-core criminals as possible."

That kind of mentality led the county's former district attorney, John Segrest, to compare the McLennan County criminal justice system to a "bubble, a separate realm. When you're a member of the system, you tend to think that most everything revolves around anything that you do. You get an unrealistic view of the world from inside."

The city's crown jewel is Baylor, the world's largest Baptist university, which in the 1880s attracted Baptists from across Texas to Waco, then known as the buckle of the Bible Belt. The private university has an air of insularity that extends to the county courthouse, a domed palace whose Lady Justice lost her arm holding scales in a storm.

From a series of Ku Klux Klan lynchings nearly a century ago to a massive twister in 1953 that tore through downtown to the Branch Davidian siege in 1993, Waco's downtown streets, a mix of historic mansions, public buildings, dilapidated houses and empty spaces where nothing was rebuilt reflect a city perpetually recovering from its last disaster.

Sheriff McNamara, the descendent of one of Waco's early settlers, was formerly a U.S. marshal who participated in the Branch Davidian siege in which federal agents tried to arrest cult leader David Koresh for stockpiling weapons at a ranch outside town. The confrontation led to a 51-day standoff that ended when the complex caught fire, killing Koresh and nearly 80 followers.

The international attention brought by the tragedy left Waco residents wary of outside law enforcement, and they say they'll handle the biker shootout themselves.

"Waco's nickname is Six-Shooter Junction," McNamara said. "Not really anything we're real proud of, but that's just the way it is."




The degree to which government officials have been uncooperative, obstructive and evasive about the Massacre is prima facie evidence that there is an official coverup. There was no probable cause to believe that most of the 177, or 182, or so, people arrested that day were guilty of “engaging in organized criminal activity.” There is probable cause to believe that police murdered at least six men and may have attempted to murder 20 more.
http://www.agingrebel.com/13387



Sound of silence in Twin Peaks biker case drawing ire

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Sound-of-silence-in-Twin-Peaks-biker-case-drawing-6488604.php



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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2015, 05:05:34 pm »


On the banks of the Brazos River in Central Texas, Waco and the surrounding county are largely run by a close-knit circle of judges, prosecutors and law enforcement that defense lawyers complain leads local agencies to close ranks in the aftermath of this most recent calamity.

It's a city where a district judge and district attorney are former law partners, the mayor is the son of a former mayor, the sheriff comes from a long line of lawmen and Waco pioneers and the sheriff's brother is the district attorney's chief investigator.



Just like Tulsa. 

Only the guy protected by the clique just happened to not have any bullets in the assault weapon he used.  Mark Allen Eaton.


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Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

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« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2015, 06:32:58 pm »

Editorial: We appeal to the court: End gag order in Waco bikers case
http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/editorials/20150916-editorial-we-appeal-to-the-court-end-gag-order-in-waco-bikers-case.ece

Four months after a bloody biker shootout, the criminal justice system in Waco looks more than a little out of whack.

It’s one of the biggest criminal prosecutions in state history, yet authorities will say almost nothing about the May 17 confrontation involving motorcycle enthusiasts and police.

Families of the nine men killed and the 18 others injured deserve better than that. So do the 177 people arrested, many of whom likely are guilty of nothing more than being in the wrong place at the wrong time.







This story started out as, well, wacky; it’s become downright outrageous.

After police and McLennan County DA Abel Reyna initially described those taken into custody as criminals, The Associated Press reviewed public safety databases and found no convictions for more than two-thirds of those arrested.
Yet the mass arrest morphed into many left stranded in jail for months on inexplicable $1 million bonds. Only after those sums were finally reduced were almost all of the accused released.

Just as troubling, Reyna wrote what defense lawyers describe as cookie-cutter arrest affidavits for the accused, documents that a justice of the peace approved without making any individual determination of probable cause.

Then came a gag order in late June — approved by a judge who is also the DA’s former law partner. No wonder people are asking questions about what kind of behind-the-scenes cooperation is going on among judges, prosecutors and law enforcement in Central Texas.

We expressed concern in July after word came that longtime Waco police detective James Head would serve as foreman of the grand jury that likely will hear the shootout case. Can the bikers get a fair hearing under those circumstances?
The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals could go a long way toward airing out this story by nullifying the gag order; it’s unclear how soon it will rule on that request. With so much suspicion permeating this case, the court would be wise to take the side of much-needed transparency.

The AP reported Friday that, within a trove of documents it had gotten its hands on, was evidence that confirms that police bullets hit bikers. However, it remains unclear whether those shots caused any of the fatalities.
The material also includes video footage of people fleeing the scene amid the shooting and audio of police threatening to shoot people if they rise from the ground.

The wheels of justice need some oiling in Waco. For those who face the possibility of 15 years to life. And for grieving families still trying to figure out what happened to their loved ones.




Gag Order Only Applied to Defense, Not Police or Prosecutors

http://radiolegendary.com/2015/09/silenced-lawyer-asks-high-court-to-lift-gag-order
http://www.texasstandard.org/stories/categories/crime-justice/lawyer-wants-gag-order-lifted-on-the-waco-biker-shootout
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Conan71
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« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2015, 08:20:12 pm »


It’s one of the biggest criminal prosecutions in state history, yet authorities will say almost nothing about the May 17 confrontation involving motorcycle enthusiasts and police.


“motorcycle enthusiasts”.  Thanks for the laugh.  Almost conjures images Boy Scouts firing off .22 rifles on the range at Philmont being swarmed by DEA agents.
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patric
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« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2015, 12:47:10 pm »

“motorcycle enthusiasts”.  Thanks for the laugh.  Almost conjures images Boy Scouts firing off .22 rifles on the range at Philmont being swarmed by DEA agents.

Unless the "Bikers for Christ", "Patriot Guard Riders" and the "Vise Grip Antuque Motorcycle Club" have taken over the meth running in Texas, the term "enthusiast" propably fits most of the people who showed up for what was supposed to be a meeting about upcoming legislative efforts.

What happened there was a clusterflock of amazing proportions, and people sworn to be accountable are running out of legal maneuvers to hide behind.
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Vashta Nerada
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« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2015, 09:42:08 pm »


The bikers believe this provides a clue to the Waco P.D.'s ongoing silence: The cops know their response was overzealous, possibly unlawful, and now they're covering it up. Some bikers believe there's an even more sinister explanation: that a firefight of some kind was supposed to happen—that it was all part of a plan by the Waco P.D. to provoke bitter rivals into a public brawl that could be violently crushed and then used as a basis for sweeping RICO indictments.

“We basically walked into an ambush.”


http://www.gq.com/story/untold-story-texas-biker-gang-shoot-out

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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #38 on: October 06, 2015, 06:47:30 am »


The bikers believe this provides a clue to the Waco P.D.'s ongoing silence: The cops know their response was overzealous, possibly unlawful, and now they're covering it up. Some bikers believe there's an even more sinister explanation: that a firefight of some kind was supposed to happen—that it was all part of a plan by the Waco P.D...

The first sentence was so very logical. Then it turned left...

I have my own idea of what happened. And I'm not saying it was aliens, but... ok, it was aliens.
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« Reply #39 on: October 06, 2015, 06:43:39 pm »

The GQ article made it clear that at least some of the big guns counted on making this a big operation that would springboard their political careers.  Busses were booked days before to shuttle prisoners to a mass booking area at a stadium, video cameras were placed on poles days before the publicly scheduled meeting, and so on.

Then something didnt go exactly as planned.



Maybe the gag order is unraveling, because the GQ interviews seem the most detailed witness account to date.

Now, the first two or three pops—me and half my crew being ex-military, we know what small-arms fire from pistols sounds like. We also know what squad automatic weapons [typically used by the military and law enforcement] sound like. After the third pop, it was nothing but squad automatic weapons.

Not a single law-enforcement person lifted a finger to help any of the wounded. And they made it pretty clear that they were going to be violent if we tried to take our guys to the ambulance. Three men were bleeding out before our eyes. If those men were still alive 30, 40 minutes after being shot, they could have been saved. A prospect named Trainer from out of Tarrant County chapter was shot. They zip-tied him and laid him on the ground next to a Bandido they had handcuffed. I noticed him jerk a few times, laying there. We were sitting there, 30 feet from him, and weren't able to help him. About two hours later, somebody walked over, looked at him, and covered him with a yellow sheet.



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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #40 on: October 07, 2015, 06:59:14 am »


Now, the first two or three pops—me and half my crew being ex-military, we know what small-arms fire from pistols sounds like. We also know what squad automatic weapons [typically used by the military and law enforcement] sound like. After the third pop, it was nothing but squad automatic weapons.


That's enough right there to call BS on the entire article. Squad Automatic Weapons are NOT typically used by law enforcement. Lets just go ahead and saw NEVER used by law enforcement. They are fully automatic, belt fed, 5.56mm (.223) machine guns designed to bring overwhelming fire to the battlefield.

Perhaps they meant the sound of .223, or the sound of rifle fire... but that's a different thing than the sound of automatic weapons fire.

Neither the sheriff nor the confiscated weapons report any automatic rifles fired (one AK-47 was captured, but it wasn't auto and sounds different than a .223).

[edited to add] Sheriff says the deputies had M16 style rifles, but did not fire in full auto. Still, a big difference between 20 rounds from an M16 and a belt fed SAW. If it was Joe Blow saying it, I;d have sympathy for the discrepancy. But when you start with "we have lots of military experience and totally know," then a SAW is not an M16[/edit]
« Last Edit: October 07, 2015, 10:59:30 am by cannon_fodder » Logged

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« Reply #41 on: October 07, 2015, 07:39:15 am »

GQ isn’t exactly what I’d call scholarly and accounts from people engaged in an on-going criminal enterprise isn’t exactly what I’d call reliable witness statements.
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patric
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« Reply #42 on: October 07, 2015, 10:22:30 am »

That's enough right there to call BS on the entire article. Squad Automatic Weapons are NOT typically used by law enforcement. Lets just go ahead and saw NEVER used by law enforcement. They are fully automatic, belt fed, 5.56mm (.223) machine guns designed to bring overwhelming fire to the battlefield.

Perhaps they meant the sound of .223, or the sound of rifle fire... but that's a different thing than the sound of automatic weapons fire.

Neither the sheriff nor the confiscated weapons report any automatic rifles (one AK-47 was captured, but it wasn't auto and sounds different than a .223).

The Waco police chief did admit to using "silencers on their rifles that fired .223 caliber ammunition, weapons which are capable of fully automatic fire"
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Waco-police-chief-offers-some-details-in-deadly-6324300.php
but claimed his men only fired a total of 12 rounds.  That apparently didnt include weapons fired by other agencies, and obviously those wouldn't appear on a "confiscated weapons" report.

Only about 4 of almost 200 taken prisoner had any police record (https://reason.com/blog/2015/06/02/4-reasons-that-waco-biker-gang-shootout) so to label all of the witnesses "criminals" is grabbing at straws. 

The powers to be screwed the pooch, and its going to make a killer Netflix and Chill movie someday.

It would be easy to clear all that up with the release of ballistics reports and complete autopsies, but its been 5 months... how long does it really take?
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« Reply #43 on: October 07, 2015, 10:35:09 am »

The Waco police chief did admit to using "silencers on their rifles that fired .223 caliber ammunition, weapons which are capable of fully automatic fire"
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Waco-police-chief-offers-some-details-in-deadly-6324300.php
but claimed his men only fired a total of 12 rounds.  That apparently didnt include weapons fired by other agencies, and obviously those wouldn't appear on a "confiscated weapons" report.

Only about 4 of almost 200 taken prisoner had any police record (https://reason.com/blog/2015/06/02/4-reasons-that-waco-biker-gang-shootout) so to label all of the witnesses "criminals" is grabbing at straws. 

The powers to be screwed the pooch, and its going to make a killer Netflix and Chill movie someday.

It would be easy to clear all that up with the release of ballistics reports and complete autopsies, but its been 5 months... how long does it really take?

What kind of sound does a rifle with a silencer on it make?
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« Reply #44 on: October 07, 2015, 12:01:14 pm »

What kind of sound does a rifle with a silencer on it make?

It still sounds like a rifle (regardless of what Hollywood would have you believe.)

Heh.    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM8xvE5B4yk
« Last Edit: October 07, 2015, 12:03:32 pm by TeeDub » Logged

 
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