Davenport Urban Lofts

[Townsend]

I am guessing it will fit without taking out the storage buildings (if you look closely, you can see them in the rendering). It looks like they tried to build up instead of out, allowing the new driveway to serve as a buffer between their building and Soundpony. If I am not mistaken, the last version filled almost every inch of the lot.

I might be the only one, but I like it. I hope this project happens.

According to the site, it will have top of the line sound deadening tech.

[Cats Cats Cats]

That is just what you say because you know that you will never show the unit when its loud outside.
Nor will the people working on or designing the building be there when its loud before its complete.

[hello]

Cool design. Build it somewhere else.

"The Rooftop is a common space with the rare benefit of privacy. It is so downtown."-From their website.

"This neighborhood is probably different than the one you’re moving from. For one thing, there aren’t any backyards. Or fences. (You won’t miss either.) You’ll walk for a coffee in the morning and it won’t be to a Starbucks. Then you’ll walk in the evening for a cocktail - or two, you’re walking! Your new neighborhood is the Brady Arts District, a unique beneficiary of the George Kaiser Family Foundation – and it’s truly amazing.

There’s an urban park called Guthrie Green that has a covered outdoor sound stage and a covered outdoor bistro – and park things, like trees and grass and wisteria vines. In a renovated warehouse across the street there’s the Philbrook Downtown, art galleries and the (now famous) Woody Guthrie Center. In a renovated Ford dealership across another street, there’s an Entrepreneur’s Base Camp and a brewpub with a fireplace and deer head on the wall."

I just...I can't.   Who wrote this?

[shavethewhales]

Weird. The prices have jumped considerably since the first concept. Now they start at $562,000 with most reaching into the $800,000's.

I thought they were on the upper edge of affordability before, but this goes into a completely different bracket. When oil is good, you can find some younger people to buy up $400,000 lofts, but at these prices they really will be for older people.

What strikes me about the design is that they lifted the units up two tall stories so that even the lowest apartments can see over Soundpony's building. The two units closest to Soundpony are the ones at $562,000 while the other side of the building skyrockets in price. They are really stressing the noise attenuation...

So instead of being a building for the richer, hip, young-ish crowd that I was hoping for, it really is turning into more of a luxury building for rich older folks looking to downsize. I'd still expect the people moving in to be moving in partially for the surroundings, but they might be the type to still expect perfect quiet at 9pm. Who knows though, there are lots of older people who like to party, but it only takes one...

What really makes me ponder is that if the south side of the building is worth so much more, what happens when someone else eventually tries to build there? Apparently that would decrease their worth by ~$300,000 if a bar is included?

I guess the Lost Ogle was more on point than I thought. I still think something like this can work in the area, and I want to see more apartments in the Brady, but I'm getting much more pessimistic about this specific project.

[Conan71]

Looks attractive to me.  Love all the windows.

[cannon_fodder]

Property records say the owner of the nearby lots have not changed since the 1990s. Supports the notion that this is still on the single lot right next to the Pony owned by Omicron Land Development, LLC.

It appears they are taking steps regarding the noise seriously. The~20' buffer of driveway will help, building up will help, and then adding other sound deadening technology. Presumably double (or even triple) pane glass. Better insulation within the walls. Acoustiblok Soundproofing panels (which they say they are using). I don't have the knowledge base to know if that would be enough to basically mitigate an inside concert at the Pony or not? But they sure on trying to put minds at ease.

Th building itself looks great. The amenities are amazing:

- Sweet rooftop with fire pit, grills, kitchen, and semi private areas to reserve
- indoor bike parking
- dog park in the back
- indoor parking (ramp)
- ground floor retail

I hesitate to criticize someone else's project on price point. My gut tells me more mid-range housing is needed, but the margin is better on high-end. I assume they know more than I do on what will sell...

If they don't mess with the Pony, this is a great add.

[johrasephoenix]

New design looks awesome.  I question if they can sell at that price point given the struggles of Urban 8, which gives you a 4 story townhome at roughly the same price.  That said, Urban 8 is monolothic and black while this is brick and right in the middle of everything. 

I live above the new Prairie brewpub and it gets pretty loud from the Hunt Club / Soundpony / Inner Circle on a Friday or Saturday night, not nearly so much the rest of the week.  That said, I think the noise is awesome and would be super sad if it went away.  Hopefully whoever can afford these lofts thinks the same way and jams out on their balcony throwing Mardi Gras beads to the partiers below.

There were lots of expensive condos/lofts on 6th and 5th street when I lived in Austin right in the middle of that nightlife scene which is x1,000 what's in the Brady District. 

I do wonder what will be on the bottom three floors if the residential units start at floor 4.

[swake]

New design looks awesome.  I question if they can sell at that price point given the struggles of Urban 8, which gives you a 4 story townhome at roughly the same price.  That said, Urban 8 is monolothic and black while this is brick and right in the middle of everything. 

I live above the new Prairie brewpub and it gets pretty loud from the Hunt Club / Soundpony / Inner Circle on a Friday or Saturday night, not nearly so much the rest of the week.  That said, I think the noise is awesome and would be super sad if it went away.  Hopefully whoever can afford these lofts thinks the same way and jams out on their balcony throwing Mardi Gras beads to the partiers below.

There were lots of expensive condos/lofts on 6th and 5th street when I lived in Austin right in the middle of that nightlife scene which is x1,000 what's in the Brady District. 

I do wonder what will be on the bottom three floors if the residential units start at floor 4.

the parking garage for the tenants.

[erfalf]

How could anyone really be opposed to this, aside from the driveway part of it. I am also assuming there is at least some comercial space on the ground floor. And if not, how is this not part of the code to build in that area. When I first saw the rendering, particularly the first two floors along Main, this is what I though of.



The upper floors are decidedly more modern but if built to this rendering is perfectly acceptable. And as much as everyone gripes at prices and wants a place "they can afford", this is how it works. You missed the chance to get a bargain when the Brady District wasn't a cool place to be. It already is a desirable location, and there is an extremely limited amount of land to develop on, of course they are going to swing for the fences. Whether they get it or not is another story. Time will tell.

The area between this building and Cameron (on either side of Main) have got to be some of the most valuable in the area. Too bad Channel 6 completely deactivated their little stretch of Cameron & Boston.

[Weatherdemon]

Will the tenants be OK with the lines from Cains before shows?
I think this is a great idea and building but struggle with the price ranges and that "one" person that may not like the lines, music, people being loud at 1:45am leaving the bars, etc.

[Red Arrow]

Will the tenants be OK with the lines from Cains before shows?
I think this is a great idea and building but struggle with the price ranges and that "one" person that may not like the lines, music, people being loud at 1:45am leaving the bars, etc.

Sounds a lot like airport syndrome.  People move in next to an airport and then complain about the airplanes.  The usual result is that the airport changes its landing patterns or becomes a shopping center.  It's all "progress". 

[Weatherdemon]

Sounds a lot like airport syndrome.  People move in next to an airport and then complain about the airplanes.  The usual result is that the airport changes its landing patterns or becomes a shopping center.  It's all "progress". 

Yep.
Same with amusement parks...

Just not a smart move to build $500K + condos in an area with multiple music venues and bars.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

How could anyone really be opposed to this, aside from the driveway part of it. I am also assuming there is at least some comercial space on the ground floor. And if not, how is this not part of the code to build in that area. When I first saw the rendering, particularly the first two floors along Main, this is what I though of.

It is a nice looking design and I hope purchasable condos go in the Brady soon. It would be great if they could make them more affordable and even better if they could be further away from those venues but this is the place they have. This will be the first owned residential units in the Brady so people are likely opposed to the NIMBY'ism which will come from a bunch of high-end condo owners who will suddenly feel entitled about the area and keeping "their neighborhood" clean and eventually quiet. It would be ridiculous if someone moved next to SoundPony and then complained but as others mention, it is the kind of thing people have been doing for a long time.

I wonder if the City of Tulsa could ever make some sort of "venue district" designation for certain places/areas to allow these businesses to operate with loud music even late, even if citizens call in to complain. Is that something that has ever been done or is it feasible?

[PonderInc]

This is a massive improvement over the previous design.  Actually, it would be one of the best designs I've seen of any new construction in downtown Tulsa--strictly from an urban design standpoint.  Lots of transparency on the ground floor, opportunity to have at least a couple retail storefronts (wish it were 4, but looks like two) with different uses, parking hidden, good use of windows above, decent proportions, respectful of the historic buildings (definitely a nod to the old Tribune building). (Bonus points for not sticking a stupid green turret on the corner of the roof.)

A quick google measurement shows they have about 140' of frontage to work with.  If each of those "storefront" blocks is about 25 feet (which is compatible with traditional storefronts), then their building would be somewhere in the vicinity of 100' wide on Main street, plus space for the driveway.  Of course, this is a total guess, and they probably are larger than that... because we've supersized everything in America.

The only downside is that the Cain's sign will be obscured from the south.  But it would still be visible from Main street.

I'm actually impressed.  Now if they can only build the thing and find enough rich people to live there and not destroy the cool factor that Cains, Soundpony and others have developed in that area.

If all else fails, I agree: take that design and stick it somewhere else downtown.  It's good.

What's the current ordinance related to bars and live music?  Presumably, if there are any rules about what time the music has to stop, these establishments would be grandfathered in, and should not be impacted by the addition of residential next door.  (It's different if you put a bar next to an existing house, than if a residence moves next to an existing bar.)

[Madmob]

The City of Tulsa Ordinance against noise is as follows:

"It shall be an offense for any person to willfully or maliciously disturb the public peace or quietude or the life, health or safety of any individual in any manner, by creating any noise of such character or duration so to be unreasonably loud or disturbing, including but not limited to the following:

The playing of any radio, phonograph or musical instrument in any manner or in such volume, particularly during the hours between 11:00 p.m. and 7:00 a.m., so as to unreasonably disturb the quiet, comfort or repose of any person in any dwelling, hotel or other type of residence"