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December 01, 2022, 05:12:29 pm
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Author Topic: Downtown Development Overview  (Read 855642 times)
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« Reply #1995 on: May 17, 2022, 07:31:48 am »



These buildings were supposed to become workforce housing, were they not? I seem to recall some articles about them being renovated, but that didn't happen and the building is back up for sale.

The sinclair building is also sitting empty still despite all the news about it being renovated.

I talked to the Ross Group guys.  They are getting their permits and starting work on Sinclair this summer. 
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« Reply #1996 on: May 17, 2022, 09:53:03 am »

I talked to the Ross Group guys.  They are getting their permits and starting work on Sinclair this summer.  

They should be moving as the speed of sound after getting that insanely ridiculous TIF allocation... I have never seen a more mind blowing amount of financial assistance on a project of that size to a developer like them with almost no stipulations attached (like a significant allocation to affordable housing requirement). How there isn't an investigation into that I do not know.

25% of the total project cost ($3.75 million from the city for a $15 million project) so essentially the city is fronting the entire equity portion of the project to Ross Group where they can be doing this project with $0 of their own in the project. Most commercial loans are for 80%-85% of Loan to Cost or Loan to Value whatever is lower. That's just insane to do that and certainly never done for any other project outside of maybe Michael Sager back in the day on the Blue Dome project on 1st Street.

For a market rate property too - almost no workforce housing or affordable housing included, certainly far less than the allocation of money should require. If they're going to give that high of a percentage of project costs the entire project should be affordable or workforce housing.

Ross Group has a great friend though in TAEO who gave them this though, wonder what kick backs were given for them to get such a great deal.

For reference, Price Properties got some incentives for the Oil Capital building and were required to set aside a much higher percentage of units to workforce/affordable housing in order to get it for far less TIF $ - AFTER the project was done, not before. Why the double standard for developers?

I'd love to buy a property and have the city on the hook for the entire equity portion plus 5-10%.

 
« Last Edit: May 17, 2022, 10:42:17 am by LandArchPoke » Logged
ComeOnBenjals
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« Reply #1997 on: July 14, 2022, 05:15:35 pm »

Some Downtown Tidbits

Arvest put their name & a new topper on the building at the corner of 6th and main. Hopefully it's lit at night.



Cherokee Federal put a sign up at the top of one of the Williams Towers, haven't seen if it lit up at night yet either.

Good to see a couple companies investing in downtown.
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shavethewhales
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« Reply #1998 on: July 26, 2022, 12:32:41 pm »

I've asked this several times before, but anyone hear any rumblings yet about the former IDL Ballroom/Enso/Unicorn Lounge spaces? They still seem to be lifeless after over a year of new ownership by the company that runs the juicery next door. They bought the place for $4.7 million and it's hard to believe they are just letting it sit empty while there are lines out the door of every bar in downtown every weekend. I seem to recall they wanted to open some sort of symbiotic business for the juice place, but it seems they had no set plans?

Also, I heard it from the bartenders at Saturn Room that their move is officially on hold for about 2 years.
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« Reply #1999 on: July 26, 2022, 02:06:55 pm »

I've asked this several times before, but anyone hear any rumblings yet about the former IDL Ballroom/Enso/Unicorn Lounge spaces? They still seem to be lifeless after over a year of new ownership by the company that runs the juicery next door. They bought the place for $4.7 million and it's hard to believe they are just letting it sit empty while there are lines out the door of every bar in downtown every weekend. I seem to recall they wanted to open some sort of symbiotic business for the juice place, but it seems they had no set plans?

Also, I heard it from the bartenders at Saturn Room that their move is officially on hold for about 2 years.

Where is Saturn Room moving?
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LandArchPoke
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« Reply #2000 on: July 26, 2022, 02:58:37 pm »

I've asked this several times before, but anyone hear any rumblings yet about the former IDL Ballroom/Enso/Unicorn Lounge spaces? They still seem to be lifeless after over a year of new ownership by the company that runs the juicery next door. They bought the place for $4.7 million and it's hard to believe they are just letting it sit empty while there are lines out the door of every bar in downtown every weekend. I seem to recall they wanted to open some sort of symbiotic business for the juice place, but it seems they had no set plans?

Also, I heard it from the bartenders at Saturn Room that their move is officially on hold for about 2 years.

Atento Capital bought it for their expanded offices, they will be vacating the space they have now which used to be Rusty Crane. Maybe that will at least turn back into a retail space.

Why they felt the need to displace a tenant like IDL/Enso, etc. is beyond me. With all the other office space locations they could have picked it baffles me. They wanted to be closer to the 36 Degrees N space in City Hall.
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« Reply #2001 on: July 26, 2022, 06:13:21 pm »

Atento Capital bought it for their expanded offices, they will be vacating the space they have now which used to be Rusty Crane. Maybe that will at least turn back into a retail space.

Why they felt the need to displace a tenant like IDL/Enso, etc. is beyond me. With all the other office space locations they could have picked it baffles me. They wanted to be closer to the 36 Degrees N space in City Hall.

Definitely an odd spot.  My hope is that someday soon there is enough density in that two block radius to see the small parking lots infilled - the one by Vintage, the one by Hurts Donuts and the ones along 2nd next to La Tertulia and The Brook.
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shavethewhales
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« Reply #2002 on: July 27, 2022, 08:25:03 am »

Atento Capital bought it for their expanded offices, they will be vacating the space they have now which used to be Rusty Crane. Maybe that will at least turn back into a retail space.

Why they felt the need to displace a tenant like IDL/Enso, etc. is beyond me. With all the other office space locations they could have picked it baffles me. They wanted to be closer to the 36 Degrees N space in City Hall.

You've got to be kidding me... they basically just finished the build out on the old Rusty Crane space. This move would put them in an arguably worse building that is only a block or so away. And like you mentioned, there's no shortage of existing office space all around anyway.

I feel like someone had it out for the IDL/Enso operator. I have a feeling the juicery people had a bug up their butts about being next to a nightclub. If they were smart they would have realized the market it created and put a late night cart outside to help people sober up/rehydrate/revive themselves after a night out.

Tulsa needs another real night club downtown. The only real nightlife spots are Club Majestic and St. Vitus. Club Majestic is nice but kind of targeted to the LGBTQ community and St. Vitus is simply way too small. There is another "upscale" nightclub that operates intermittently, but it keeps changing its format and I rarely see it open. Other than that our nightlife scene is basically a bunch of small bars with DJs and local bands. At least we have the piano bar now I guess - and that place stays packed!
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ComeOnBenjals
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« Reply #2003 on: July 27, 2022, 09:21:05 am »

That building has become a total eyesore, I walk by it every day for work and there's always trash laying around.

Agree with the comments on needing more nightlife. For a metro of its size, Tulsa is severely lacking in high end bars/clubs. There's only a handful of places that have DJs/music/dancing. Could use 5 more of those types of places at least.
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DowntownDan
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« Reply #2004 on: July 27, 2022, 01:10:55 pm »

I'm not a hip club scene person, but I always thought the business model was to get the word around, be popular for maybe a year or two, then close and open something newer and hipper. I don't think many nightclubs are meant to be long term businesses, but again, I'm pretty lame, this is just my outside observations.
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tulsabug
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« Reply #2005 on: July 27, 2022, 03:41:56 pm »

I'm not a hip club scene person, but I always thought the business model was to get the word around, be popular for maybe a year or two, then close and open something newer and hipper. I don't think many nightclubs are meant to be long term businesses, but again, I'm pretty lame, this is just my outside observations.

No - I'm pretty sure you're totally correct on the business model for clubs. Heck - Studio 54 only lasted 3 years but it's legend would suggest much more than that.

Also - pretty sure all clubs are just fronts for something illegal so that would certainly keep them from being very long-term. On that note - Studio 54 did close down when the owners got convicted of tax evasion.
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shavethewhales
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« Reply #2006 on: July 28, 2022, 09:45:19 am »

I mean, there are plenty of good clubs that last for decades, and plenty of standard bars and restaurants that come and go quickly. Lots of clubs are well run and generate significant tax revenue without much trouble. Downtown has some good entertainment with the venues and bars we have, but nightclubs are an essential part of an entertainment district and make a city more livable and attractive for young people especially. I guess it's worth noting though that since Enso/Unicorn closed down, other venues such as the Fur Shop and Tulsan have really stepped up their DJ game and absorbed some of the demand. Even still, there are lines down the block at each place on a typical Friday/Saturday night. The Blue Dome is not even close to being filled out to meet the demand Tulsa has for a real entertainment/night life district. 
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« Reply #2007 on: August 25, 2022, 10:02:47 am »

So apparently Shady Keys is moving to 314 E 3rd St and also opening a new sports bar in the same building.

I assume the new location will give them more space, because they are doing a stunning business so far. They have been sold out most Saturdays this summer apparently. Like I said in previous posts, Tulsa is starved for nightlife.

Odd that the sports bar is named "Lounge 88" though. I assume there's a historical reference there, but... they may want to change that, lol.

Wonder what will happen with the old space. There wasn't anything there before Shady Keys to my knowledge and I can't see many operations doing well there besides a nightclub. Might make a nice smaller music venue, but we've already got a bunch of those.
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tulsabug
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« Reply #2008 on: August 26, 2022, 08:29:35 am »

So apparently Shady Keys is moving to 314 E 3rd St and also opening a new sports bar in the same building.

I assume the new location will give them more space, because they are doing a stunning business so far. They have been sold out most Saturdays this summer apparently. Like I said in previous posts, Tulsa is starved for nightlife.

Odd that the sports bar is named "Lounge 88" though. I assume there's a historical reference there, but... they may want to change that, lol.

Wonder what will happen with the old space. There wasn't anything there before Shady Keys to my knowledge and I can't see many operations doing well there besides a nightclub. Might make a nice smaller music venue, but we've already got a bunch of those.

Maybe Lounge 88 will have a dueling-duckwalk night.
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« Reply #2009 on: September 02, 2022, 08:11:31 am »

A couple positive developments for Cheyenne between the tracks and Archer

36 Degrees North to expand renovating the OTASCO warehouse at 12 N Cheyenne. 


https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/36-degrees-north-to-expand-entrepreneurial-services-with-historical-renovation-in-tulsa-arts-district/article_05183f26-29f1-11ed-8f71-abefb4340fab.html?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook_Tulsa_World_Work_&_Money&fbclid=IwAR3EQ5ffl21S2KWga1ksLC5---O0Zve41do6GspQGSX4xd8koA_PMSmbHMg

And Holbertson School just opened its 17k sf expansion across the street
https://tulsaworld.com/business/local/holberton-tulsa-enlarges-software-engineering-school-downtown/article_83327292-286f-11ed-bade-7fa06735ed76.html?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook_Tulsa_World_Work_&_Money&fbclid=IwAR24eXmCmCOXRCe9SoFx3deLrgTd21pN0GQZLDk8vlkJNDvrzTsXWz-jbJQ
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