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October 19, 2018, 01:56:36 pm
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Author Topic: Downtown Development Overview  (Read 226838 times)
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« Reply #1110 on: December 29, 2017, 09:33:17 am »


I followed the link to that to see if the comments lived up to my expectations.  I was not disappointed.  People are still mad about the BOK Center nearly a decade later.
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« Reply #1111 on: December 29, 2017, 09:43:16 am »

I followed the link to that to see if the comments lived up to my expectations.  I was not disappointed.  People are still mad about the BOK Center nearly a decade later.

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« Reply #1112 on: December 29, 2017, 10:01:11 am »

I know it shouldn't be a surprise, but very clear the people commenting aren't reading the article at all. I'm surprised there hasn't been anything on the Facebook post from TW yet, comment-wise.

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Conan71
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« Reply #1113 on: December 29, 2017, 11:07:30 am »

Cynicism toward outside consultants and master plans is well-earned.  How much money has Tulsa blown in the last few decades on these studies which result in little or no action resembling the conclusions of the studies?
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« Reply #1114 on: December 29, 2017, 12:10:16 pm »

Why is it so complicated to purchase the Page Belcher building, demolish it and build a new convention hotel on that site?
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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #1115 on: December 29, 2017, 12:28:49 pm »

Because our Congressional delegation would have to lobby for it to be declared surplus. They have been asked to do that before, but declined.

If it were declared surplus, then there would have to be a public auction.
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« Reply #1116 on: December 29, 2017, 12:58:50 pm »

Why is it so complicated to purchase the Page Belcher building, demolish it and build a new convention hotel on that site?

Presumable because you have to have both a new replacement federal courthouse and post office in place before that can happen.  Unfortunately, Tulsa missed out on the courthouse building boom of the 1990s and early 00s. 
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #1117 on: December 29, 2017, 01:29:59 pm »

Why is it so complicated to purchase the Page Belcher building, demolish it and build a new convention hotel on that site?

It is Federal property housing a post office, Federal Courts, DOJ offices, US Marshall's offices, maybe FBI, etc.  The sale would need to be approved of the "surplus" property, which means those offices would need a new home before that happened.  Given that it was determined that the building couldn't be upgraded to meet current security concerns and that the post office space has been minimized, it would make some sense.  Then again, the building as it stands currently serves the required purposes and has for decades... the issue really is the city wants the land for development and wants a prettier building.  That's a hard sell for "fiscal conservatives."


Also, its almost like the built an arena next to a bunch of government buildings and away from and disconnected from the entertainment districts without a plan for linking them all together and are surprised that they ended up with an arena away from the entertainment districts but next to a bunch of government buildings.  Go figure...  still waiting on that interior courtyard at the One Place development too.  But the master plan will look great on a shelf somewhere.

Finally, with the influx of smaller hotels it is unlikely that a large convention center hotel would want to locate downtown.  Also, it is unlikely that the slew of hotel developers and influential investors therein would be in support of any plan to expend political capital (or financial resources) to make that happen anyway.  So would the plan be to tear down the federal building, pay to build a new one, and then use that space for a new downtown entertainment district to compete with the Arts District and the Blue Dome?

I'm still a fan of the BOK Center overall, the location had benefits and issues then and still does a decade later.  Not sure what an outside consultant could tell us about that...
« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 01:34:46 pm by cannon_fodder » Logged

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« Reply #1118 on: December 29, 2017, 07:06:07 pm »

It is Federal property housing a post office, Federal Courts, DOJ offices, US Marshall's offices, maybe FBI, etc.  The sale would need to be approved of the "surplus" property, which means those offices would need a new home before that happened.  Given that it was determined that the building couldn't be upgraded to meet current security concerns and that the post office space has been minimized, it would make some sense.  Then again, the building as it stands currently serves the required purposes and has for decades... the issue really is the city wants the land for development and wants a prettier building.  That's a hard sell for "fiscal conservatives."


Also, its almost like the built an arena next to a bunch of government buildings and away from and disconnected from the entertainment districts without a plan for linking them all together and are surprised that they ended up with an arena away from the entertainment districts but next to a bunch of government buildings.  Go figure...  still waiting on that interior courtyard at the One Place development too.  But the master plan will look great on a shelf somewhere.

Finally, with the influx of smaller hotels it is unlikely that a large convention center hotel would want to locate downtown.  Also, it is unlikely that the slew of hotel developers and influential investors therein would be in support of any plan to expend political capital (or financial resources) to make that happen anyway.  So would the plan be to tear down the federal building, pay to build a new one, and then use that space for a new downtown entertainment district to compete with the Arts District and the Blue Dome?

I'm still a fan of the BOK Center overall, the location had benefits and issues then and still does a decade later.  Not sure what an outside consultant could tell us about that...

A better location would be on the site of Page Belcher, putting the BOk between 2nd and 4th and leaving 2nd whole. Page Belcher is what should have been torn down.
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« Reply #1119 on: December 30, 2017, 12:04:18 pm »


I'm still a fan of the BOK Center overall, the location had benefits and issues then and still does a decade later.  Not sure what an outside consultant could tell us about that...


They could tell us the BOK center location has benefits and issues then send us a bill for a few hundred thousand.  Sounds like a really good gig.  Got time to start an urban consulting business with me?  Now that I've got an out-of-state address, that means the COT would be more likely to hire us than a local firm.
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« Reply #1120 on: December 30, 2017, 03:54:42 pm »

They could tell us the BOK center location has benefits and issues then send us a bill for a few hundred thousand.  Sounds like a really good gig.  Got time to start an urban consulting business with me?  Now that I've got an out-of-state address, that means the COT would be more likely to hire us than a local firm.

Go for it.  Just don't tell them you still visit on a somewhat frequent basis.
 
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« Reply #1121 on: January 04, 2018, 08:52:30 am »

The Meadow Gold truck lot has been cleared.
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« Reply #1122 on: January 04, 2018, 09:57:16 am »

I'm sure Tulsa would love to have something like this Omni that is proposed next to the new convention center in downtown OKC:


From the TW article:
Former Mayor Dewey Bartlett’s administration devised an elaborate scheme for the city to buy the building and lease it back to the federal government until a new courthouse could be built, but that plan never came together.

Now the city is going to pay as much as $500,000 for some Ohio-based consultants to develop a master plan for the Arena District, including what to do with the Page Belcher, which occupies an entire square block between the BOK Center and Cox Business Center — precisely where the city would love to have a big convention-size hotel.
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« Reply #1123 on: January 04, 2018, 10:55:06 am »

500k for a study/masterplan?

I'm not against it on principal, but do we feel that the last 3 or 4 masterplan type studies have been worthwhile? Have we actually followed masterplans in Tulsa over the past couple decades? I'm asking more of the old timers in here who have followed these things closely for the past 15+ years.
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« Reply #1124 on: February 03, 2018, 03:46:36 pm »

The old Folks Market spot has a permit posted for an applicant called "The Oil Can Sports Bar LLC."  Anyone know what that's about?  Is another sports bar coming to downtown?


I walked past this today and took a photo of the most recent permit. It is dated Jan 2017. Is this project dead?

I heard someone is planning something for the old Rusty Crane site. There were workmen there on Friday doing some painting and such.

At least the hotel across the street has started some serious construction.
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