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December 15, 2018, 12:41:51 pm
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Author Topic: Downtown Development Overview  (Read 240807 times)
Tulsasaurus Rex
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« Reply #645 on: June 03, 2016, 07:07:42 am »

Neat concept, but I didn't realize it was going to be that far off the beaten path.

Where would you say the beaten path is? It's diagonally one block from 2nd & Elgin (ok two block I guess since you have to walk along orthogonal streets), the epicenter of the Blue Dome district. It's one block from the Urban 8 and the Hartford Commons, and one block past that is the East Village hub. In another couple years, all these little areas will cease to be a disjointed archipelago and will instead be a solid urban fabric. To the extent the Box Yard is off the beaten path (and it isn't) it's beating a new path. This is how urbanism works, incrementally and organically.
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #646 on: June 03, 2016, 08:05:37 am »

Realistically, it would be hard to acquire land that is more "on the beaten path" than this location. Almost everything is spoken for with some kind of plan for it. The few that are not, I have to imagine, have some sort of entanglement keeping them static (regulatory, owner not interested in developing yet, price too high, or ambitious plans waiting in the wings).

Looking at the map, this is smack dab in the middle of a ton of development. Within 3 blocks you have:

A ton of existing businesses:
The fur shop
Fassler hall
Legends
Juniper
Dust Bowl
Dilly Diner
Fleet Feet
Lee's Bicycles
I2e
GuruStu
OK Eq (and Pride!)
East End Pizzeria
a Winery
A theater building
a credit union
Arnies
Woody's
A new Corporate HQ
Albert Gs
McNellies
El Guapos
Rib Crip
A liquor store
Enso
Joe mommas
STG Pizza
Yokozuna
Dozens of units of new condos and apartments
...and a ton of other industries/commercial shops

Within the next 2 years you will have:
A new hotel
A huge parking garage
A hundred new residential units
Tons more retail
New grade A office space

Sometime in the not too distant future you will have:
A HUGE new development by the Snyder family 1 block to the south.
Opportunities on the few remaining lots and under utilized buildings.
And possible another anchor development 2 blocks down the street (the PAC lot).


This is a great, forward thinking placement IMHO. The lot was not used for parking (that is, no current revenue so it probably helped the deal), they didn't tear down an existing structure, it doesn't interfere with the known investors existing operations (by cannibalizing their existing parking, etc.), AND... as you said William, is it is a block off the beaten path so it expands the pedestrian zone.

Go Box Yard Go!
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Tulsasaurus Rex
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« Reply #647 on: June 03, 2016, 08:52:28 am »

Amen
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Conan71
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« Reply #648 on: June 03, 2016, 09:05:22 am »

Neat concept, but I didn't realize it was going to be that far off the beaten path.

Not really off the beaten path when you consider all the development going on to the north, south, and east of the project.  It’s actually kind of an epicenter of all that new development.
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TheArtist
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« Reply #649 on: June 03, 2016, 09:25:20 am »

I got ya.  I was just thinking of several factors retail wise.

1.  It will be several years till many of those things happen and the retail that is going in there now will have to "hang in there", though of course they will get a big boost right off because of the newness factor and all.

2.  Dwelling Spaces is one of the anchor tenants and I would say their current location would be more in the center of things than this new one.

3.  The club next door will not be good for retail for it will be a dead spot during the day and mostly kick in late at night and they aren't the buying crowd, which is one reason its hard even in the Blue Dome district now because the late crowd is not as much a buying crowd.

4.  "Contiguous" retail frontage is VERY important for downtown retail.  And there are a lot of gaps in-between this development and others, for instance the Architecture firm that will be right in front of the box yard "actually its facing the back of it".   The optimal thing for retail is for it to be facing more retail across the street, in many cities that are trying to nurture retail in an urban environment for instance, they make it illegal to have office on the ground floor in their retail corridors.

Pedestrians are finicky.  My sales have gone up over 40% just by moving one block over, on the same street!  You can step out the door and see both locations from the other.  But the old location was near a small gap in the urban fabric which made it much tougher.

Also that new living, unless it has retail on the ground floor can also act as a gap.  That development on 3rd street, Urban 8,... another pedestrian gap. 16 people or so that will live in it will not be enough to boost sales nearby, but that development is a big enough gap to hurt retail on either side or facing it.  Especially once competition kicks in.  

If Mods and the Candy Castle moved away from being opposite me, or Jimmy Johns or Elote being almost next door left.... it would be death to my business.  I will do whatever I can to try and help the building owners in my area get other tenants across from and next to me that are retail/restaurant so that my business will do better.  If more office goes in, or a club thats only open at night, not any good for my business.

The other thing I noticed is that there seems to only be a "front" to the Boxyard and lots of blank walls on many other sides which will hamper pedestrian activity.

Again, hopefully more retail/restaurant will go in immediately nearby, but that will take time and there are already some "settled in" gaps like the Ross group offices directly right across.  That right there puts this retail development at a competitive disadvantage to one that has retail/ retaurant opposite it.

Pedestrians are finicky, downtown is not like suburbia.  I hear the prices for the Boxyard are a WHOLE lot more than what I am paying in my location, which though not great, is currently doable.  And I do hope that both locations will get better.  Just have to be very careful at this point of what else goes in and where.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2016, 09:28:53 am by TheArtist » Logged

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Conan71
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« Reply #650 on: June 03, 2016, 02:36:26 pm »

Points well-taken.  With multiple tenants moving in and the nature of it being made from repurposed shipping containers, I think this will have great tourism interest and be a shopping destination.  Once Santa Fe Square is complete, there’s a good ring of retail just a block north.  I get that there are gaps in retail in that area, but I think they can make it work.
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DowntownDan
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« Reply #651 on: June 06, 2016, 03:51:17 pm »

Old Channel 6 building will be redeveloped.  Part of it will be demolished.  More good news for downtown.

http://www.newson6.com/story/32157082/big-changes-coming-to-another-location-in-downtown-tulsa
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Tulsasaurus Rex
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« Reply #652 on: June 07, 2016, 08:26:32 am »

Always fun to be surprised by something like that I didn't know was coming.
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Tulsasaurus Rex
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« Reply #653 on: June 07, 2016, 08:32:21 am »

This is dumb: http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/michael-overall-someday-tulsa-will-face-dilemma-of-too-much/article_f0802d6e-1ed6-5783-8d8d-ca58ebd61dde.html
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Conan71
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« Reply #654 on: June 07, 2016, 09:26:53 am »


Throwaway op-ed.  Michael must have been one story short to get his paycheck.
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erfalf
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« Reply #655 on: June 07, 2016, 10:32:30 am »

Throwaway op-ed.  Michael must have been one story short to get his paycheck.

Everyone of his pieces has been terrible. Nothing new here. Someone on this board (in 5 minutes) could write better downtown pieces than he does.
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Bamboo World
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« Reply #656 on: June 13, 2016, 05:22:11 pm »


I see the TDA has issued a RFP on the lots between Rusty Crane the the stadium:
http://www.tulsadevelopmentauthority.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Block-44-RFP.pdf


OKPOP Museum submitted a proposal to the TDA for that site.  I wonder what happened to the mixed-use proposal for hotel/retail/office/underground parking announced in July 2013 ... discussed on the "New Hotel in the Brady/Greenwood area" topic thread.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 05:46:28 pm by Bamboo World » Logged
Conan71
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« Reply #657 on: June 13, 2016, 05:55:26 pm »

The old mixed use/hotel developer couldn't deliver.  He'd contracted the parcel from the Tulsa Development Authority to build on it many years ago in the late 2000s.  He never delivered though and the land was vacant.

If my read is right the TDA got wise after some not-so-good deals back in the day and included a clawback cause if the developer doesn't build in a certain time frame.  I think the TDA gave the guy like 6 or 7 years and eventually gave up and took the land back.  There was an RFP on the site a few months back from the TDA and it looks like OKPOP was the best proposal.

Was that a Wil Wilkins project which was not completed or even started or someone else?
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johrasephoenix
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« Reply #658 on: June 13, 2016, 06:22:44 pm »

I think it was the Wilkins project.  They've filed all kinds of lawsuits against the TDA trying to hold onto the parcel.  But there's only so long you can let prime ballpark real estate sit empty
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Bamboo World
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« Reply #659 on: June 13, 2016, 06:36:09 pm »


Was that a Wil Wilkins project which was not completed or even started or someone else?


It was a Wilkins project.  I think johrasephoenix is correct in that Will Wilkins and his mom could not deliver, but completely incorrect about the timing.

In August 2008, the TDA ended negotiations with the Wilkinses, so johrasephoenix's read that "the TDA gave the guy like 6 or 7 years and eventually gave up" is 100% wrong.

According to the July 26, 2013 World article:

Quote

"The [mixed-use development] announcement marks the Wilkinses' second attempt to build on the property. They had entered into negotiations with TDC [sic] for the property in 2008, but the TDC [sic] terminated negotiations months later. The property was within the area earmarked for the master plan for what would become ONEOK Field.

The Wilkinses filed suit alleging breach of contract, and TDC [sic] approved a $46,000 offer to settle in 2010."


Something must have happened since July 2013.  Perhaps the Wilkinses could not put the deal together, but it has been less than three years, not six or seven.  The Wilkinses wanted to develop the property about eight years ago, before the current ballpark location was proposed.  The TDA suddenly changed their minds, and the TDA chose to let prime ballpark real estate sit empty rather than continuing negotiations with the Wilkinses.  
« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 07:25:49 pm by Bamboo World » Logged
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