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December 11, 2019, 12:41:48 am
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Conan71
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« Reply #165 on: April 20, 2018, 09:07:15 am »

She obviously has great tastes in modern urban living. Unfortunately for her the market wasn't there to support such high end design, especially not in 2015 and looks like still not today. It's like she built the perfect place for her and her budget without considering if there are 7 other Yvonnes in Tulsa.

I'm glad they take advantage of the space with 3 floors and rooftop, but they must have way overspent and then wasted 4 years of potential revenue if they would've just finished and then rented a couple out (maybe split some up into multi units). It's hard to imagine what a money pit this must be.

I figured by now there would've been more transplants from the Northeast or West Coast (Thinking NYC, Boston, Seattle, SFO, or LA) used to the urban lifestyle for which this price point would have represented a real bargain in a mind used to larger market urban real estate prices.
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #166 on: April 20, 2018, 09:48:40 am »

I figured by now there would've been more transplants from the Northeast or West Coast (Thinking NYC, Boston, Seattle, SFO, or LA) used to the urban lifestyle for which this price point would have represented a real bargain in a mind used to larger market urban real estate prices.

Someone posted on this thread a while back about how for less, you can get really nice large condos in a lot of higher demand areas of larger cities. Sure, getting a stand-alone is going to be pricey in bigger cities, but comparable square-footage and interiors for much lower prices. Those cities actually have competition for urban housing. But apparently being the only one offering stand alone units downtown doesn't guarantee sales at such high prices.
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« Reply #167 on: April 20, 2018, 10:37:55 am »

I figured by now there would've been more transplants from the Northeast or West Coast (Thinking NYC, Boston, Seattle, SFO, or LA) used to the urban lifestyle for which this price point would have represented a real bargain in a mind used to larger market urban real estate prices.

Curious...how many of those do you think have moved to Tulsa over the last five years?
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Conan71
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« Reply #168 on: April 20, 2018, 12:22:38 pm »

Curious...how many of those do you think have moved to Tulsa over the last five years?

Man I have no clue.  I figured there would have to be a corporate attorney, surgeon, engineer, etc. paid handsomely to move from somewhere else every quarter or so. Or maybe they have but they want the suburban experience with big lots and space from their neighbors.

Maybe people like that are waiting for Murr Fail and the entire OK Legislature to go "bye-bye" before they would consider moving here.

I honestly have no idea how bad all the happenings in state government affect the image of Tulsa in the minds of attracting the best and brightest.  Tulsa has become somewhat more progressive thinking in terms of development and it's really a pretty good place to live for an MSA of 1 million people.  If we had not found the opportunity MC and I had been dreaming of for our respective lifetimes, we'd still be there and enjoying all Tulsa has to offer.  I will never bad mouth Tulsa except for assholic drivers.  The State Legislature is a target rich environment for my wrath though.  Grin
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« Reply #169 on: April 23, 2018, 09:41:29 am »

Curious...how many of those do you think have moved to Tulsa over the last five years?

A good amount I'm sure, but they likely aren't living downtown.  I know a couple from California that recently moved to Tulsa and bought a nice house near Philbrook, something they never could've done in CA.

I'm convinced though if you were to build a product more similar to the Central Park townhomes (2 or 3 bed brick brownstones) that were priced closer to $500k that you would see a lot demand.  I would love to see more brownstones like those built on the southern end of the East Village. 
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #170 on: April 24, 2018, 09:11:19 am »

I think it's a lot more than that. This board is all about development and encouraging better city design to enrich the environment/scenery and ability to live well (and not necessarily with a car). Good interior design goes hand in hand with that and is in many ways the inside equivalent. Fortunately the demand for better-designed homes has skyrocketed so you get less of this: http://projectbritain.com/houses/img/kitchen/wood.jpg and more of this: http://bloomingcactus.me/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/average-cost-of-kitchen-remodel-full-size-of-kitchen-kitchen-remodeling-cost-average-kitchen-remodel-cost-kitchen-remodel-large-size-of-kitchen-kitchen-average-cost-kitchen-remodel.jpg

The Urban 8 were designed at a very high level and were shockingly well done when they first released renderings and then photos back in 2015/2016 with fixtures and colors that were perfect at the time. That basic interior layout will be something that works a long time. However, light fixtures, hardware and colors change more quickly. You can keep the same high-level design for 10+ years and it will still look great (and they still look awesome, much better than a typical house), but selling something to a high-end buyer will likely take a design that is extremely eye-catching and recent, not one from 4/5 years ago.

Asking a near-million-dollar home to be updated to more recent look than half a decade ago ago isn't unreasonable, especially when the market has delivered a higher level of finishes for that price range.


Edit;  I am not condemning the styles of today.  Or yesterday or tomorrow.  They will change again, soon.  And will always go full circle from time to time. 


Color and fixtures are what I was getting at...the wood tone will be back and highlighted on all the decoration shows in just a few years.  

The second pic is stark, sterile, colorless, and 'flat' looking.  I hear it described on the shows as 'modern' and 'clean'...am starting to see some 'sea mist' green and blues used in advanced kitchen designs.  Right out of 1955...

They went for "looks" with little thought to functionality in that grey kitchen.  Sink - get a double sink in farmer style.  Always more functional than single sink.  Horrible layout - even with the island - biggest work/prep space is way far away from the cook top and the stove!   And I presume the people will be shopping at least once or twice a day for food, since there is no fridge for storage.  

Black appliances were all the rage for a while...kinda still are for 'late adopters' who don't jump on the bandwagon every time it changes a little.  Then stainless was huge for quite a while.  Now we have already moved on to black stainless, according to the TV commercials.   Only a matter of time until Avocado green is back!  Then I can get a matching stove to go with the old storage refrigerator!!

« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 09:13:35 am by heironymouspasparagus » Logged

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« Reply #171 on: April 24, 2018, 09:31:20 am »

I figured by now there would've been more transplants from the Northeast or West Coast (Thinking NYC, Boston, Seattle, SFO, or LA) used to the urban lifestyle for which this price point would have represented a real bargain in a mind used to larger market urban real estate prices.


That is an ongoing occurrence.  I have worked with people doing exactly that for at least the last 30 years...and that is just when I became really aware of what was happening.

Several of them moved here for what they planned to be their last "coasting" job - coasting into retirement.  Time frame from 3 yrs to as much as 15 yrs.  (My last boss was one of those - retired and moved back home now.)

The type jobs they are - professional, management, technical, are generally better paid.  Get much bigger house here for same money.  Can sock away more for retirement, the bail.  These are also the ones who many times are propagandizing about 'cutting taxes'.  Since they have NO vested interest in what happens here either during or after their time here.  They don't have kids here so schools don't matter - "it's Oklahoma, why should I care...I won't be here...?"   Or infrastructure - "Who cares about the roads/bridges here - my car is a 'disposable' that I will replace with a good one for retirement so doesn't matter if it gets torn up some.  Just gotta last another X number of years till I go home."

Literally have said those things.  Among others.

People who came from left and right coasts or north, and returned to left/right states/areas, just outside the high rent districts where the industrial jobs were located.   Ex; came from Palo Alto, returned to Reno, NV.   Came from Indiana and Florida, returned to Roanoke, VA.  Came from Milwaukee, returned to Mequon and  Pewaukee. 

Cheap living IS the draw that we have - as long as they can keep their salaries near the outside area levels.  We don't have much else to actually cause a corporate migration here.  And the way we have been treating education and infrastructure the last 6 - 8 years, that ain't gonna change!



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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
Cats Cats Cats
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« Reply #172 on: April 24, 2018, 11:46:26 am »

If I was retiring and moving to Tulsa because of the cost of living. I'm not sure I would spend $600k+ on a 3000 sq loft with no grocery store nearby. Also, one of the benefits of moving from the coasts is you can sell your $600k house and buy the same house for $300k and pocket the $300k for retirement. I know somebody who moved downtown from a $700k house in Tulsa. They laughed at the Urban 8 development cost and I would have thought they were the key demographic to move there.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 11:55:28 am by Cats Cats Cats » Logged
Conan71
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« Reply #173 on: April 24, 2018, 02:01:42 pm »

If I was retiring and moving to Tulsa because of the cost of living. I'm not sure I would spend $600k+ on a 3000 sq loft with no grocery store nearby. Also, one of the benefits of moving from the coasts is you can sell your $600k house and buy the same house for $300k and pocket the $300k for retirement. I know somebody who moved downtown from a $700k house in Tulsa. They laughed at the Urban 8 development cost and I would have thought they were the key demographic to move there.

Maybe that is the problem.  In Tulsa, Ok. there is no demographic which fits this development.
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joiei
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« Reply #174 on: April 24, 2018, 02:13:48 pm »



Black appliances were all the rage for a while...kinda still are for 'late adopters' who don't jump on the bandwagon every time it changes a little.  Then stainless was huge for quite a while.  Now we have already moved on to black stainless, according to the TV commercials.   Only a matter of time until Avocado green is back!  Then I can get a matching stove to go with the old storage refrigerator!!



Don't forget the Harvest Gold of the same era and God, Please forgive us, Shag Carpets. 
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #175 on: April 24, 2018, 03:15:43 pm »


Edit;  I am not condemning the styles of today.  Or yesterday or tomorrow.  They will change again, soon.  And will always go full circle from time to time. 


Color and fixtures are what I was getting at...the wood tone will be back and highlighted on all the decoration shows in just a few years.  

The second pic is stark, sterile, colorless, and 'flat' looking.  I hear it described on the shows as 'modern' and 'clean'...am starting to see some 'sea mist' green and blues used in advanced kitchen designs.  Right out of 1955...

They went for "looks" with little thought to functionality in that grey kitchen.  Sink - get a double sink in farmer style.  Always more functional than single sink.  Horrible layout - even with the island - biggest work/prep space is way far away from the cook top and the stove!   And I presume the people will be shopping at least once or twice a day for food, since there is no fridge for storage.  

Black appliances were all the rage for a while...kinda still are for 'late adopters' who don't jump on the bandwagon every time it changes a little.  Then stainless was huge for quite a while.  Now we have already moved on to black stainless, according to the TV commercials.   Only a matter of time until Avocado green is back!  Then I can get a matching stove to go with the old storage refrigerator!!



I just picked one of the first results from googling 1990s kitchen (the bad first link I sent) and modern kitchen (and picked a very plain looking modern kitchen). That modern kitchen doesn't look great to me, just typical plain middle/high builder-grade one. Maybe I should've found something more like this that is pretty common now days:
http://thedistricttable.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/magnolia-house-.jpg (Wood is and has been very popular, even in cabinets, just not the overdone 1990s oak cabinets).

Kitchens are head and shoulders better looking and better designed nowadays than they were in the 2000s, 1990s, 80s, 70s, etc... There has been a huge push to improve design, usability and aesthetics over the last 10 years. Old cabinets were terrible. New cabinets have closure assist (soft open and close), and have better utilized space and more types of spaces. Kitchens used to be a place for just preparing food, but now they're one of the main hangout/social areas and they are often the best looking room in the house.

Check out any house that has been remodeled in the last 10 years and the kitchen will likely be far better than a typical 1990s house like I'd linked to (crowded, split up, tended to be smaller).
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #176 on: April 24, 2018, 03:34:37 pm »

Here's a typical older house kitchen:
https://photos.zillowstatic.com/p_f/IS2f44yzg35uv31000000000.jpg

They've updated it aesthetically, but still same original design. Small, crowded, uninviting and while it may be convenient, it is made for basically 1 or 2 to use at a time. Nowadays, people pile into the kitchen, no matter how small, so it's better to be a bit larger with more usable space for dining or preparing.


Here's an updated design from just a block or two away: https://photos.zillowstatic.com/p_f/ISi75wzeisdccj0000000000.jpg

Here's another close by that's almost the same as that first one, but they partially updated to better fit modern kitchen usage (took out wall and added island): https://photos.zillowstatic.com/p_f/IS233jnohy981v0000000000.jpg I don't like the style or cabinet stain (very 1990s and ugly overall), but shows the more updated layout/design can be applied while still keeping old finishes.

The overall design of these urban 8 units is really great and convenient and keeps the kitchen as part of the "great room". That layout will be popular for a while. Regardless of exact aesthetics/hardware/colors, I'd be happy with an urban 8 kitchen or even something like this: https://houseofhargrove.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Modern-Farmhouse-Kitchens-10.jpg
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 03:37:14 pm by TulsaGoldenHurriCAN » Logged
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #177 on: April 24, 2018, 04:08:45 pm »

Don't forget the Harvest Gold of the same era and God, Please forgive us, Shag Carpets.  



I literally just got rid of my old Harvest Gold Magic Chef range about 5 months ago, new in house in 1976!  I would not have gotten rid of it - would  have found parts to fix the oven - if not for the time pressures of Thanksgiving dinner approaching.


And the house had the original shag carpets when we moved in - it was about 4 years old at the time.  Got rid of them quickly.
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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #178 on: April 24, 2018, 04:22:13 pm »

Here's a typical older house kitchen:
https://photos.zillowstatic.com/p_f/IS2f44yzg35uv31000000000.jpg

They've updated it aesthetically, but still same original design. Small, crowded, uninviting and while it may be convenient, it is made for basically 1 or 2 to use at a time. Nowadays, people pile into the kitchen, no matter how small, so it's better to be a bit larger with more usable space for dining or preparing.


Here's an updated design from just a block or two away: https://photos.zillowstatic.com/p_f/ISi75wzeisdccj0000000000.jpg

Here's another close by that's almost the same as that first one, but they partially updated to better fit modern kitchen usage (took out wall and added island): https://photos.zillowstatic.com/p_f/IS233jnohy981v0000000000.jpg I don't like the style or cabinet stain (very 1990s and ugly overall), but shows the more updated layout/design can be applied while still keeping old finishes.

The overall design of these urban 8 units is really great and convenient and keeps the kitchen as part of the "great room". That layout will be popular for a while. Regardless of exact aesthetics/hardware/colors, I'd be happy with an urban 8 kitchen or even something like this: https://houseofhargrove.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Modern-Farmhouse-Kitchens-10.jpg


They are all going for looks over function.  That last one didn't have a fridge again, and that may be a dishwasher one cabinet over from sink, but inconveniently distant from sink.   I like wood cabinets pretty well - tends to soften the look and make it more welcoming to me.  Am also only interested in functionality as a kitchen - the island can act as transition to the living area, but if two can't cook in it, it's a major fail to me.

White kitchens - that melamine look - are too much like my garage.  I use those same cabinets in the garage as storage shelves, but with more generic handles/knobs.  I need the brightness it brings since there are no windows.  The kitchen has windows so can put up with a little darker surface.  

One kitchen I saws and would build if I could afford it had black walnut cabinets, old decorative tin metal ceiling panels like an old saloon circa 1880, and black walnut hardwood floors, stained very dark.   Needless to say, it took a lot of lighting to make it work!  The layout was amazing and extremely well suited for both cooking and entertaining.  (I have been 'collecting' walnut lumber and trees for quite a while, so maybe will get there eventually...)


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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
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« Reply #179 on: April 24, 2018, 04:30:29 pm »

Maybe that is the problem.  In Tulsa, Ok. there is no demographic which fits this development.

True.  If you live in Irvine CA  and sell  the house that you bought for $400k for $1.2 million and clear $1 million, are you going to spend $800k for a condo or $400k for a house on some land in a suburb and have $600k in the bank? (before capital gains tax on the sale of the CA house)
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