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September 20, 2020, 09:20:09 am
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Author Topic: Simon Outlet Mall 61st & Hwy 75  (Read 246297 times)
SouthTulsaCountyDude
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« Reply #690 on: July 21, 2015, 06:40:07 am »

Plans like this from two months ago?



Jenks is a top 10 or so wealthiest zip code in the state and the location is directly across the river from the number one wealthiest zip code. It sits directly next to a six lane expressway and the improved streets and highway exit were already voted on and approved and work starts on them in the next few weeks.

I would have preferred a location at 23rd on the west bank, but for an outlet mall this is hardly a bad location.

As for Catoosa and East Tulsa, the companies looking to build outlet malls at those locations are small companies. Woodmont in Catoosa is a privately held Texas real estate company that owns and/or manages 15 million square feet of space. Horizon in East Tulsa (also the owner of the OKC outlet mall) is a publicly traded REIT with a market cap of $15 million.

Simon is North America's largest commercial property company that owns and manages some 240 million square feet of commercial real estate and has a market cap of $57 billion.

There's nothing wrong with the other two projects or the companies behind them, but once Simon comes into the mix the others are going to lose. Tulsa can only have one outlet mall and if Simon wants this market, they will get it.





Yup, agreed.   Couldn't have said it better myself.    Smiley
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #691 on: July 21, 2015, 09:29:09 am »

I always see these types as missed opportunities. Instead of strip malls and acres of surface parking, they could accomplish the same thing and do something interesting, and that lasts. Build an entire faux mainstreet, occupy an old building, revitalize an entire area... Make it a destination. Not just another strip mall thrift store.
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DTowner
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« Reply #692 on: July 21, 2015, 01:57:08 pm »

I was in Las Vegas last week and walked around the Simon outlet mall.  It was similar in layout to this plan, except much bigger and with structured parking.  It had all usual schlock one would expect (is it a law every outlet mall have a Van Heusen store?), but also a lot of very high end designer brands (Armani, Ted Baker, John Varvatos, Carolina Herrera, etc.).  Not sure we will get many of the truly high end stores here no matter where the mall is located.
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Tulsasaurus Rex
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« Reply #693 on: September 01, 2015, 08:44:26 am »

Quote from: The Frontier
River Parks, others, want to expand Turkey Mountain footprint

I’m surprised no one is talking about Turkey Mountain.

Now that the folks behind a proposed outlet mall at 61st Street and Highway 75 have scrapped the idea— or so it seems — a multi-prong effort is afoot to ensure that as much of the beloved area as possible remains undeveloped.

Haven’t you heard?

River Parks Authority has asked city councilors for $5.6 million from the Vision 2025 sales tax renewal to expand Turkey Mountain’s footprint.

Another nonprofit, Tulsa Urban Wilderness Coalition, wants $4.5 million for the same purpose and $5.5 million for enhancements to the area.

And Planning and Leadership Academy Tulsa, a group of community-minded high school students, has gotten together to request Vision renewal funds with the same goals in mind.

River Parks’ intent, according to a handout provided to city councilors, is to acquire enough land to “secure contiguous recreational properties from the (Arkansas) river to Highway 75, north of 61st Street.”

That would include the 52-plus acres on the northeast corner of 61st Street and Highway 75 where Simon Properties’ Premium Outlet Mall was to have been built, River Parks Executive Director Matt Meyer told councilors.

Last week, Meyer told the Frontier that the possible purchase is nothing more than an idea. The property is owned Beeline Sixty-One Properties.

“We don’t have a contract or anything,” Meyer said. “Nobody has offered any land to us. It is all preliminary.”

The land directly east of the Beeline property and north of 61st Street is owned either by the city of Tulsa or the George Kaiser Family Foundation, or partially owned by GKFF.

The Kaiser Foundation has said previously that it does not intend to develop the land it owns.

Meyer said another possible use for the Vision funding would be to purchase land not owned either by the city, or by GKFF entirely.

“It gives us flexibility” regarding possible land purchases in the area, Meyer said.



Planning and Leadership Academy Tulsa has proposed that as much as $3.2 million in sales tax from a Vision 2025 renewal be used to purchase the former mall site. As an alternative, PLAT suggested the city split the cost with the Tulsa Urban Wilderness Coalition.

TUWC is seeking donations to purchase the property through the Tulsa Community Foundation.

Which brings us to Tulsa Urban Wilderness Coalition’s pitch for Vision funds.

TUWC has its eyes on different property than those River Parks and PLAT hope to secure.

It wants $4.5 million to buy 151 acres south of 61st Street and east of Highway 75.

The properties include:

  • Approximately 53 acres owned by Siegfried Companies Inc. on the southeast corner of U.S. 75 and 61st Street
  • Approximately 25 acres just south of the Siegfried property owned by McGehee, Leone C. & First National Bank and Trust, OKC
  • Approximately 73 acres owned by Miller, Jennifer L. Trust & Jill S. Johnson Trust to the south and east of the Siegfried property and east of the McGehee property



As you can see, a lot of folks are determined to expand the boundaries of what is  known as Turkey Mountain.

Whether that will happen is another story. Who knows whether any Vision dollars will be allocated for that purpose, or how much.

Waves of people have their hands out. Councilors received more than $2 billion worth of requests to fund economic development projects.

The sales tax, should voters agree to renew it, is expected to raise about $732 million over 15 years, and a large chunk of that will go for river development — remember those dams?— and public safety.

If you’re curious about what $2 billion in Vision requests look like, check out the full list of proposed projects at https://www.cityoftulsa.org/our-city/vision/submitted-proposals.aspx

City councilors have said they plan to hold town hall meetings to present their Vision 2025 renewal proposal to voters before it is placed on the ballot in April.

That means a lot of cutting between now and then.

https://www.readfrontier.com/river-parks-others-want-to-expand-turkey-mountain-footprint/
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #694 on: September 01, 2015, 09:25:53 am »

God that would be amazing. PROTECT WHAT WE ALREADY ENJOY.

If the land South of 61st was brought into the mix, a ton of stuff could be done with the space. A world class destination for biking. ultra marathons, etc. Get the Creeks to build a cultural center and do educational hikes.

Glad to see people trying to make it happen!
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rdj
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« Reply #695 on: September 01, 2015, 09:30:17 am »

Would the proposed BMW World HQ fit in with these plans, as far as locating it on one of these tracts?
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sgrizzle
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« Reply #696 on: September 01, 2015, 12:23:05 pm »

I'm a little confused why, after fighting to keep the outlet mall off of one plot of land, TUWC is trying to raise money to preserve land across the street instead of the plot they fought for.
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Conan71
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« Reply #697 on: September 01, 2015, 01:56:44 pm »

I'm a little confused why, after fighting to keep the outlet mall off of one plot of land, TUWC is trying to raise money to preserve land across the street instead of the plot they fought for.

I can understand the confusion.  Allow me to clarify why that was not in TUWC’s ask:

By the time funds would be dispersed for V-2025 extension, if it passes and if Turkey Mountain expansion is included on that slate of funds, it could be years down the road.  The “Simon” tract is on development radar and has existing commercial zoning for the taking.  There are fund-raising efforts on multiple fronts underway to secure the 60 acre parcel on the NE corner sooner rather than later to try and prevent someone else from slipping in and purchasing the property for development.  Hopefully that will be done and closed on prior to when this even hits the ballot next April.

The expansion to the south of 61st is some of the “game-changing” or “moving the needle” logic the council was searching for;  a swing for the fence, if you will.  In TUWC’s presentation, it was identified that the land previously eyed by Simon would have been acquired for preservation via other means so this would be the target for TUWC’s land expansion.  Adding another 151 acres to the park would be amazing and become an even bigger attraction for outdoor events.
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sgrizzle
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« Reply #698 on: September 01, 2015, 03:50:07 pm »

I can understand the confusion.  Allow me to clarify why that was not in TUWC’s ask:

By the time funds would be dispersed for V-2025 extension, if it passes and if Turkey Mountain expansion is included on that slate of funds, it could be years down the road.  The “Simon” tract is on development radar and has existing commercial zoning for the taking.  There are fund-raising efforts on multiple fronts underway to secure the 60 acre parcel on the NE corner sooner rather than later to try and prevent someone else from slipping in and purchasing the property for development.  Hopefully that will be done and closed on prior to when this even hits the ballot next April.

The expansion to the south of 61st is some of the “game-changing” or “moving the needle” logic the council was searching for;  a swing for the fence, if you will.  In TUWC’s presentation, it was identified that the land previously eyed by Simon would have been acquired for preservation via other means so this would be the target for TUWC’s land expansion.  Adding another 151 acres to the park would be amazing and become an even bigger attraction for outdoor events.


Then bury, or at least lower, Elwood/61st.
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swake
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« Reply #699 on: September 01, 2015, 05:29:38 pm »

Then bury, or at least lower, Elwood/61st.
Just remove it east of the highway and keep the park access off of Elwood.
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Conan71
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« Reply #700 on: September 01, 2015, 07:52:18 pm »

Just remove it east of the highway and keep the park access off of Elwood.

Bingo!
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #701 on: September 02, 2015, 12:48:40 pm »

Then bury, or at least lower, Elwood/61st.

Burying a mile of powerlines costs $25,000,000+. I bet it costs more to lower a road. Safe to say the cost of lowering 61st Street would outstrip the cost of purchasing all the land anyone has ever mention as wanting to be part of Turkey Mountain.  Central park has roads going through it. I'm guessing we can find a decent work around for less than all the money asked for...

(I'd be happy o close the road at the upper lot, and close the road before the first hill coming east from 75)
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #702 on: September 02, 2015, 01:34:59 pm »

Burying a mile of powerlines costs $25,000,000+. I bet it costs more to lower a road. Safe to say the cost of lowering 61st Street would outstrip the cost of purchasing all the land anyone has ever mention as wanting to be part of Turkey Mountain.  Central park has roads going through it. I'm guessing we can find a decent work around for less than all the money asked for...

(I'd be happy o close the road at the upper lot, and close the road before the first hill coming east from 75)

I think you're off by about a magnitude of 10 there!   

Quote
underground power lines cost five to 10 times more than overhead wires
http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/12/us/winter-storm-power-lines/

This lines up pretty well with this:

Quote
A typical new 69 kV overhead single-circuit transmission line costs approximately $285,000 per mile as opposed to $1.5 million per mile for a new 69 kV underground line (without the terminals). A new 138 kV overhead line costs approximately $390,000 per mile as opposed to $2 million per mile for underground (without the terminals).
http://www.elp.com/articles/powergrid_international/print/volume-18/issue-2/features/underground-vs-overhead-power-line-installation-cost-comparison-.html
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patric
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« Reply #703 on: September 02, 2015, 01:46:09 pm »

I think you're off by about a magnitude of 10 there!   
 http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/12/us/winter-storm-power-lines/

This lines up pretty well with this:
A typical new 69 kV overhead single-circuit transmission line costs approximately $285,000 per mile as opposed to $1.5 million per mile for a new 69 kV underground line (without the terminals). A new 138 kV overhead line costs approximately $390,000 per mile as opposed to $2 million per mile for underground (without the terminals).
http://www.elp.com/articles/powergrid_international/print/volume-18/issue-2/features/underground-vs-overhead-power-line-installation-cost-comparison-.html

Those are primary lines which generally withstand our weather. 
Its the secondary lines that get laid waste every spring/fall/winter storm.  Just bury secondaries and see what the price Vs. reliability looks like.
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sgrizzle
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« Reply #704 on: September 02, 2015, 09:35:47 pm »

Just remove it east of the highway and keep the park access off of Elwood.

No, you want to keep two roads in. You could put a parking lot in between and discourage through traffic though.

I didn't say make a tunnel, I'm just saying keep the road at a lower grade so you can add crossings over the roadway connecting the two sections of park. That's not exactly level terrain. They had to do the same amount of dirt work to make it level.
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