A grassroots organization focused on the intelligent and sustainable development, preservation and revitalization of Tulsa.
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
February 19, 2020, 08:02:50 pm
Pages: 1 ... 9 10 [11] 12 13 ... 55   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Simon Outlet Mall 61st & Hwy 75  (Read 221204 times)
sgrizzle
Kung Fu Treachery
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 16037


Inconceivable!


WWW
« Reply #150 on: September 02, 2014, 07:26:41 am »

That could prove the project un-doing unless Simon is used to spending millions upon millions in infrastructure.  The interchange may seem pretty academic to them.  What if the city or county required a complete overhaul of the 61st/Elwood ribbon of road to 71st?  I’m not sure enough money exists to make that a safe stretch of road for high traffic.

I've never seen a city/county ask for traffic improvements two ways on a project.

By all accounts Tulsa Hills/The Walk at Tulsa Hills will bring as much vehicle traffic to 81st as the outlet will to 61st but they aren't being asked to improve 81st and Elwood which is just as many lanes as 61st is. I think this means you have your answer already.
Logged
Conan71
Recovering Republican
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 29312



« Reply #151 on: September 02, 2014, 08:50:03 am »

I've never seen a city/county ask for traffic improvements two ways on a project.

By all accounts Tulsa Hills/The Walk at Tulsa Hills will bring as much vehicle traffic to 81st as the outlet will to 61st but they aren't being asked to improve 81st and Elwood which is just as many lanes as 61st is. I think this means you have your answer already.

81st between Union and Elwood does not have several big elevation changes, a blind turn and good sized drop offs on either side of the road.  It’s not an accurate comparison.  Traffic congestion will be a biznitch on 81st.  People get killed on the other corridor from cars departing the roadway or head-ons.  As if to make a solid point of that:  As I was leaving Turkey Mountain with the International Mountain Bike Association rep on Saturday, two future organ donors passed us on their crotch rockets about midway up Elwood Hill.
Logged

"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
Red Arrow
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 10353


WWW
« Reply #152 on: September 02, 2014, 10:47:40 am »

As I was leaving Turkey Mountain with the International Mountain Bike Association rep on Saturday, two future organ donors passed us on their crotch rockets about midway up Elwood Hill.

They will probably damage those organs too much to use again.
Logged

 
Conan71
Recovering Republican
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 29312



« Reply #153 on: September 02, 2014, 11:05:39 am »

They will probably damage those organs too much to use again.

Bad things happen to organs when they decelerate from 100 MPH to zero in a second or two.
Logged

"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
sgrizzle
Kung Fu Treachery
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 16037


Inconceivable!


WWW
« Reply #154 on: September 02, 2014, 11:36:12 am »

81st between Union and Elwood does not have several big elevation changes, a blind turn and good sized drop offs on either side of the road.  It’s not an accurate comparison.  Traffic congestion will be a biznitch on 81st.  People get killed on the other corridor from cars departing the roadway or head-ons.  As if to make a solid point of that:  As I was leaving Turkey Mountain with the International Mountain Bike Association rep on Saturday, two future organ donors passed us on their crotch rockets about midway up Elwood Hill.

Your statement seems to assume such decisions are based on anything other than number of lanes.
Logged
Conan71
Recovering Republican
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 29312



« Reply #155 on: September 02, 2014, 01:17:42 pm »

Your statement seems to assume such decisions are based on anything other than number of lanes.

You have to look at overall traffic density as well as relative safety of the road if you add significantly to the traffic count.  At least I hope they would, but this is government we are talking about so common sense probably has nothing to do with it.
Logged

"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
carltonplace
Historic Artifact
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4587



WWW
« Reply #156 on: September 02, 2014, 01:31:13 pm »

You have to look at overall traffic density as well as relative safety of the road if you add significantly to the traffic count.  At least I hope they would, but this is government we are talking about so common sense probably has nothing to do with it.

it's not that common
Logged
rdj
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1583



« Reply #157 on: September 02, 2014, 01:59:59 pm »

Leases are often utilized to tie the property in the development phase then are converted to purchase at a later date.

Exactly my point.  Much easier for Simon to walk away from this project at this point than if they had executed a purchase.
Logged

Live Generous.  Live Blessed.
SXSW
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4013


WWW
« Reply #158 on: September 10, 2014, 08:14:02 am »

The Cherokees are now proposing an $80 million retail and entertainment complex in Catoosa.  How does this affect the other "proposals"?

http://m.krmg.com/news/news/local/expansion-planned-hard-rock-hotel-and-casino/nhJyg/
Logged

 
sgrizzle
Kung Fu Treachery
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 16037


Inconceivable!


WWW
« Reply #159 on: September 10, 2014, 12:57:06 pm »

The Cherokees are now proposing an $80 million retail and entertainment complex in Catoosa.  How does this affect the other "proposals"?

http://m.krmg.com/news/news/local/expansion-planned-hard-rock-hotel-and-casino/nhJyg/

Probably bad for the east Tulsa proposal, if it has any effect at all.
Logged
DolfanBob
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2885



« Reply #160 on: September 10, 2014, 01:00:59 pm »

The Cherokees are now proposing an $80 million retail and entertainment complex in Catoosa.  How does this affect the other "proposals"?

http://m.krmg.com/news/news/local/expansion-planned-hard-rock-hotel-and-casino/nhJyg/

Oh Gawd. They won't be happy till it resembles Disney World.

Cue the River Spirit announcement on an expansion to the Jimmy Buffett Hotel that's not even built yet.
Logged

Changing opinions one mistake at a time.
DTowner
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1423


« Reply #161 on: September 10, 2014, 01:19:28 pm »

Probably bad for the east Tulsa proposal, if it has any effect at all.

Very bad for the east Tulsa outlet mall and Tulsa in general.  The east Tulsa outlet mall was Tulsa's best chance of shoring up its sales tax base in that area for the next decade or so.  I don't see how both of these projects can work out and the east Tulsa project was already in jeopardy from the potential Simon outlet mall on Hwy 75.
Logged
Conan71
Recovering Republican
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 29312



« Reply #162 on: September 10, 2014, 02:25:55 pm »

Very bad for the east Tulsa outlet mall and Tulsa in general.  The east Tulsa outlet mall was Tulsa's best chance of shoring up its sales tax base in that area for the next decade or so.  I don't see how both of these projects can work out and the east Tulsa project was already in jeopardy from the potential Simon outlet mall on Hwy 75.

Simon has far more hurdles to clear.  I spoke at length last night to a developer who evaluated the Simon property for a retirement community some years back.  He said the site development costs are going to be astronomical because there is so much rock.  He also mentioned ONG owns 40 acres on the west side of 75 where apartments were proposed but residents of housing additions near there blocked it.  That would make for a better space for Simon and an easier on/off.

I keep hoping they will go away anyhow.
Logged

"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
SXSW
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4013


WWW
« Reply #163 on: September 10, 2014, 02:58:05 pm »

If they have to develop the Turkey Mtn land by 75 the best thing would be a small office park.  Retail with its parking requirements and traffic is just a bad idea in that location.

By the way the Cherokee deal is for outlets which I would believe effectively kills the east Tulsa proposal and maybe Simon too: http://m.tulsaworld.com/homepage1/cherokee-outlets-announced-for-hard-rock-casino-site/article_8edbf76b-dbf2-507b-b483-d3d7db8c5c70.html?mode=jqm
Logged

 
sgrizzle
Kung Fu Treachery
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 16037


Inconceivable!


WWW
« Reply #164 on: September 10, 2014, 03:56:42 pm »

If you wanted to know why Simon announced when the deal wasn't finalized, now you know.

Early bird gets the worm outlet.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 9 10 [11] 12 13 ... 55   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

 
  Hosted by TulsaConnect and Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
 

Mission

 

"TulsaNow's Mission is to help Tulsa become the most vibrant, diverse, sustainable and prosperous city of our size. We achieve this by focusing on the development of Tulsa's distinctive identity and economic growth around a dynamic, urban core, complemented by a constellation of livable, thriving communities."
more...

 

Contact

 

2210 S Main St.
Tulsa, OK 74114
(918) 409-2669
info@tulsanow.org