1st Street Lofts Rant/recap

[Townsend]

From Facebook.  Looks like they'll fight on.  I'll try to support them better.

I'm hopeful.  I buy from them as I leave work.  I've had to go elsewhere as the inventory has not been there.

[Conan71]

So inventory goes with the business.  So it wouldn't make sense to sell and then buy more inventory.

Not if they are selling down to avoid tax on inventory or attempting to liquidate to pay off other creditors/investors.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

In most places that means: “GOING OUT OF BUSINESS SALE!!!!"
I always thought having a liquor store was a license to print money.  Shame they can’t make a go of it, maybe they were a few years too early.

Whiskey Business seems like a good idea and the location could work for many people. I think it is just too expensive plus it is inconvenient to go there if you don't live downtown. Every time I went there, it was $1-$2 more for a six pack or bomber. I would still go there to support it though. But after Modern Spirits opened on 11th & Elgin, I had no reason to go to Whiskey Business. Modern Spirits is the liquor store downtown needed: Large selection and reasonable prices (for the most part - they price-gouged Prairie's new 12oz to $15 each!).

[Conan71]

Whiskey Business seems like a good idea and the location could work for many people. I think it is just too expensive plus it is inconvenient to go there if you don't live downtown. Every time I went there, it was $1-$2 more for a six pack or bomber. I would still go there to support it though. But after Modern Spirits opened on 11th & Elgin, I had no reason to go to Whiskey Business. Modern Spirits is the liquor store downtown needed: Large selection and reasonable prices (for the most part - they price-gouged Prairie's new 12oz to $15 each!).

I wouldn’t pay $15 for 12 oz. of fairy dust, must less a beer.  My wife was given one of the Guiness “limited edition” beers for Christmas by a friend in a 750ml bottle.  We later saw it in a liquor store and could not believe the price: $35.  It’s beer, not a single malt scotch or a nice bourbon.

I almost picked up the latest Willows release, but didn’t want to swing $15 for a bomber.  Being a home brewer, I appreciate the cost involved in big beers as well as the cost of used barrels, but somehow Marshall’s has managed to do those at about $10 per bomber and turned out some really great ones.

[Townsend]

So I look out of my building windows and see the Sager building sitting dead while a new building on 1st and a new building on 3rd are both moving forward very nicely.

It's a shame to see the public's money getting thrown away like this.

[swake]

So I look out of my building windows and see the Sager building sitting dead while a new building on 1st and a new building on 3rd are both moving forward very nicely.

It's a shame to see the public's money getting thrown away like this.

The saddest part is the location and building couldn't be better. It's in middle of everything in a great old building. Putting lofts in there is a complete no-brainer. So it takes an idiot to mess it all up.

[carltonplace]

The saddest part is the location and building couldn't be better. It's in middle of everything in a great old building. Putting lofts in there is a complete no-brainer. So it takes an idiot to mess it all up.

BOOM!

[rdj]

What baffles me is why someone with the capacity to do so hasn't taken it over or forced it to be taken over.  Surely the city has some recourse that those with clout could get the city to move forward on.  Baffling.

[Conan71]

What baffles me is why someone with the capacity to do so hasn't taken it over or forced it to be taken over.  Surely the city has some recourse that those with clout could get the city to move forward on.  Baffling.

Would that be up to the city or the V-2025 managing authority to foreclose?  If it was 2025 funding, I’m not sure what lever the city has as long as everything is up to code and it’s not fallen into being a nuisance.  

What is completely incomprehensible, is it has been close to (if not over) a year nearly 1 1/2 years since the Armstrongs bought the Blue Dome/Arnies and Woody’s buildings.  That should have made Sager quite flush unless he had to turn around and pay his never-ending list of creditors.  Reported sales price was $1.5mm.

He’s been a risky bet dating all the way back to when he owned and ran Karmichaels +/- 25 years ago.

Separated at birth?  You decide:

[Vision 2025]

TDA is who the developers contracted and maintains an enforceable position.

[DTowner]

So I look out of my building windows and see the Sager building sitting dead while a new building on 1st and a new building on 3rd are both moving forward very nicely.

It's a shame to see the public's money getting thrown away like this.

It’s astounding to consider the number of downtown developments that have gone from idea to completion since this project started.  TDA either failed to negotiate itself sufficient enforcement rights and real deadlines or it’s failed to use whatever rights it has to ensure that this project was timely completed.  Either way, TDA has breached its duty to the citizens of Tulsa (not like that’s a new thing).

[Cats Cats Cats]

Would that be up to the city or the V-2025 managing authority to foreclose?  If it was 2025 funding, I’m not sure what lever the city has as long as everything is up to code and it’s not fallen into being a nuisance.  

What is completely incomprehensible, is it has been close to (if not over) a year nearly 1 1/2 years since the Armstrongs bought the Blue Dome/Arnies and Woody’s buildings.  That should have made Sager quite flush unless he had to turn around and pay his never-ending list of creditors.  Reported sales price was $1.5mm.

He’s been a risky bet dating all the way back to when he owned and ran Karmichaels +/- 25 years ago.

He bought the triangle building with part of the money I believe.  $550,000

[rdj]

TDA is who the developers contracted and maintains an enforceable position.

Why haven't they enforced their position?  Are these documents publicly view able for a citizen to read the position the TDA holds?

It is interesting that PMG's monthly report on Vision 2025 indicates the downtown Tulsa housing assistance program is complete.  I guess spending the money is complete...just not the project.

The real question is will the Vision 2025 tax expire before Mr. Sager finishes and opens the nineteen units he promised.  Eighteen or so months away?

[Conan71]

It’s astounding to consider the number of downtown developments that have gone from idea to completion since this project started.  TDA either failed to negotiate itself sufficient enforcement rights and real deadlines or it’s failed to use whatever rights it has to ensure that this project was timely completed.  Either way, TDA has breached its duty to the citizens of Tulsa (not like that’s a new thing).

“TDA” and “timely” are rarely used in the same sentence. 

[Vision 2025]

Why haven't they enforced their position?  Are these documents publicly view able for a citizen to read the position the TDA holds?

It is interesting that PMG's monthly report on Vision 2025 indicates the downtown Tulsa housing assistance program is complete.  I guess spending the money is complete...just not the project.

The real question is will the Vision 2025 tax expire before Mr. Sager finishes and opens the nineteen units he promised.  Eighteen or so months away?

I recall that TDA did extended the loan conditions (required project completion date) to Mr. Sager on at least one occasion, beyond that I can't speak to the condition of any TDA loan.

From the perspective of Vision 2025, the funding agreement to the CITY/TDA has been fulfilled.  The funds were made available to TDA who made loans to various developers therefore the loan program from our perspective is complete.

Remember, this funding to the City was a one-time deal from Vision 2025 to the City to administer.  However; TDA established that their program would be implemented as loans rather than grants (I can still hear the grumbling over that one) and at least initially they did set it in motion to continue to use these funds as a short-term, no-interest revolving loan program when re-paid which I personally think is an excellent approach.

I'm sorry, but our files for this fund have been archived or I would easily be able to provide more information on the origional terms and repayment times...