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March 28, 2024, 12:22:36 pm
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Author Topic: Pentagon lost $8.5 trillion  (Read 12482 times)
Conan71
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« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2014, 09:13:13 am »

My point is that it goes to the NIMBY thought processes of those in Congress.  If it didn't happen in my back yard, tough smile.  People make it sound like democrats spend more than republicans.  At least republicans would like people to think that.  How about that Iraq war that miraculously got kept off the books?

You are completely missing the point because the media conflated two entirely different issues.  No one was against FEMA disaster aid and relief coming to the victims of Hurricane Sandy immediately after the storm.  They got their aid as quickly as FEMA could move after the storm. 

The media immediately screamed: “Hypocrisy!” after the Moore tornado because Inhofe and Coburn said they would push for aid for storm victims from existing funding streams.

GOP members were voting against a supplemental aid package to help re-build after Sandy which also included funding for projects nowhere close to the damage zone from that storm.  That’s not the same thing as saying: “We are against any and all aid for Sandy victims". 

Our delegation wasn’t against aid for Sandy victims, they were against a supplemental funding bill which had all sorts of goodies for members of Congress who did not represent areas affected by Sandy.  Had someone drafted a supplemental funding bill for Moore tornado victims with a truckload of other projects for North Dakota and Montana, I’m pretty well sure the Oklahoma delegation would have voted against it, especially with Coburn being such a budget hawk.
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nathanm
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« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2014, 05:08:00 pm »

I get it. Sandy happened, thus causing the Feds to top up the FEMA fund. That was "new" spending. But since it didn't all get spent on Sandy relief, the remaining funds weren't new spending. In other words, doublespeak.
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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2014, 07:48:18 pm »

You boys sure can't stay on topic...this was about military spending and the loose accounting from the Pentagon...

According to this site, http://nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-budget-101/spending/

57% of all discretionary spending for the President is already committed to the military. Arguing about anything else (including disaster relief) is pennies in comparison.

Military spending is out of control and we need a President and Congress with the balls to reign it in.
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« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2014, 10:31:51 pm »

You boys sure can't stay on topic...

Surprised?

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Gaspar
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« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2014, 10:00:01 am »


Military spending is out of control and we need a President and Congress with the balls to reign it in.

Never happen in a hundred years.  Sequester was the closest we can get.
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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2014, 11:20:25 am »

It can happen. If not, then everything about Washington DC is wrong and we should just go back to the feudal system.

We just need to hold politicians accountable and let them know that we want less military spending. The seniors from World War II and Korea won't be around forever. They are being replaced by Vietnam era seniors who don't see war the same way.

If we truly asked voters if they if they would accept a large tax decrease in exchange for a 10% reduction in military spending, they would support it. Instead we argue about small budget items like unemployment and food stamps.
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« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2014, 11:39:22 am »

If we truly asked voters if they if they would accept a large tax decrease in exchange for a 10% reduction in military spending, they would support it. Instead we argue about small budget items like unemployment and food stamps.
Two unfortunate reasons that won't happen:

1. The moment someone blows up their shoe on a plane, or takes out one of our embassies, whoever sponsored any reduction in military readiness, will be eviscerated.  The military frequently uses this angle to bolster support, and will be quick to point out anyone that had a hand in diminishing their funding.

2. Politicians on both sides will see any reduction in military spending as an opportunity to create new entitlements first.  Any money returned to the tax payers will be only a token of the amount saved. We will keep expanding our list of items that American's "have a right to," and the money will simply get shifted to other pockets.

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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2014, 06:05:19 pm »

Your cynical attitude is one of the problems.
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Ed W
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« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2014, 08:05:54 pm »

So the military lost $8.5 trillion since 1998. Okay. That's only a portion of their budget. Meanwhile, the projected 10 year cost for Obamacare is around $2 trillion.

Why is it okay to spend or lose trillions of dollars for a military that can kill someone on the far side of the planet within minutes or hours, yet it's somehow wrong to save lives of our fellow citizens? This isn't a monetary question. It's a moral one.
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« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2014, 10:15:21 pm »

So the military lost $8.5 trillion since 1998. Okay. That's only a portion of their budget. Meanwhile, the projected 10 year cost for Obamacare is around $2 trillion.

Why is it okay to spend or lose trillions of dollars for a military that can kill someone on the far side of the planet within minutes or hours, yet it's somehow wrong to save lives of our fellow citizens? This isn't a monetary question. It's a moral one.

It would be a lot more preferable to let the enemy come to us like we did in 1941.  Well, maybe not.

It gets down to what each of us think the functions of government should be.

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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2014, 07:32:01 am »

Again, using irrational fear is part of the problem.

How do you ever leave the house? There are bad guys out there.

I believe we can have reasonable military expenses just like we can have reasonable security in our homes. You can take reasonable steps to be safe.

To compare this, we would spend 57% of all discretionary expenses on home security. Add up your food bill, your gas,water and electricity expenses, your phone, cable, internet charges, any clothing, cleaning or appliances, and throw in your cost for educating your kids or feeding your pets, then spend all that plus more on home security.
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« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2014, 09:10:27 am »

I believe defense of the country is covered in our Federal Constitution.  However, I have questions about the applicability of a whole lot of the rest of what we spend Federal dollars on.

Beyond that, I also know there is a tremendous amount of waste and graft in our defense budget.  The problem has been around for a long time and our system enables and encourages it.  I believe we should make our Representatives and Senators stay in their respective state capitals and do business electronically.  At least this would make the lobbyist chore more difficult and expensive.
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Conan71
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« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2014, 11:30:32 am »

So the military lost $8.5 trillion since 1998. Okay. That's only a portion of their budget. Meanwhile, the projected 10 year cost for Obamacare is around $2 trillion.

Why is it okay to spend or lose trillions of dollars for a military that can kill someone on the far side of the planet within minutes or hours, yet it's somehow wrong to save lives of our fellow citizens? This isn't a monetary question. It's a moral one.

If that really were the intention of Obamacare, but it’s not.  Maybe the hyperbole says it’s for that purpose.

I don’t think anyone disagrees that there is still tons of waste at the Pentagon which is going unmitigated.  It’s a classic example of run-away bureaucracy and it goes largely unchallenged because Senators and Representatives are loathe to be pegged with disrespecting military brass by hauling generals and admirals in to be deposed about such waste in a Congressional hearing.  If they propose defense cuts it’s always touted as they are against veterans and they are stripping away the necessary tools troops need to defend themselves and our country. 

Never mind that there’s probably far more in the defense budget than necessary for administrative costs.  The problem is, when you have a system that allows someone to become a self-policing potentate of their own chunk of government, they will do anything to keep from losing money from their own budget.  Department leaders are asked to audit their department and get rid of all non-essential tasks and employees.  It never happens.  They circle the wagons and justify every penny plus why they need even more next year.

Put The Pentagon on a diet.  Make them sort out on their own what is essential and what isn’t.  That’s what has happened with other departments in the sequester.  Problem is, no one in Congress or executive branch has the balls to do it for the reasons I explained above.

Government has become all about power and self-preservation, not serving the people as it’s first mission.
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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2014, 12:21:35 pm »

Put The Pentagon on a diet.  Make them sort out on their own what is essential and what isn’t.  That’s what has happened with other departments in the sequester.  Problem is, no one in Congress or executive branch has the balls to do it for the reasons I explained above.

We are essentially at peace right now. We are not engaged in any major war and there seems to be less tension world-wide right now than there has been in my lifetime.

Now is the time to ask the Pentagon to take the same cuts as every other part of our federal government.
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Conan71
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« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2014, 01:32:32 pm »

We are essentially at peace right now. We are not engaged in any major war and there seems to be less tension world-wide right now than there has been in my lifetime.

Now is the time to ask the Pentagon to take the same cuts as every other part of our federal government.

I don’t know that I necessarily agree about their being less tension.  For certain, we have done quite a bit to thin the ranks of foreign terrorist groups the last 12 years.  But, there’s always another asshat hiding behind the next rock looking to start his own jihad and plenty of religious fundamentalists ready to join the next cause.

As far as your comment on timing I agree.  The reason it likely won’t happen is because no one wants to be accused of having “cut defense to the bone” when the next call to action happens.  It will happen, we just don’t know when.  We like being the world’s top cop because it keeps The Pentagon relevant and a priority in the budget.  Remember, Clinton was largely blamed for troops being ill-equipped at the start of the Iraqi and Afghani conflicts because he had thinned down the military under his watch.

Understand, I don’t approve of this logic, I’m simply pointing out why this continues.  It won’t change until we get representatives and leaders who are willing to do what is best for the country instead of worrying what is in their best self-interest.  To that end, I’m not sure how we can make that happen other than term limits but that’s apparently a dead concept.
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
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