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Author Topic: Confiscating the Phone Records of US Citizens  (Read 26459 times)
Gaspar
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« on: June 06, 2013, 07:11:36 am »

Oh the hits just keep coming. . . It seems there is an ObamaPhone after all  Cheesy

"In the digital era, privacy must be a priority. Is it just me, or is secret blanket surveillance obscenely outrageous?" - Al Jazera Gore

(CNN) -- The U.S. government has obtained a top secret court order that requires Verizon to turn over the telephone records of millions of Americans to the National Security Agency on an "ongoing daily basis."



The program does not target foreigners or known terrorists. It is specifically directed toward American Citizens.  Probably just the dirty Tea Partiers.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/06/05/nsas-verizon-spying-order-specifically-targeted-americans-not-foreigners/

And more today. . .

The government has now given itself the authority to search your property without any probable cause. . ."Based on hunches"
The 23-page report, obtained by The Associated Press and the American Civil Liberties Union under the U.S. Freedom of Information Act, provides a rare glimpse of the Obama administration’s thinking on the long-standing but controversial practice of border agents and immigration officers searching and in some cases holding for weeks or months the digital devices of anyone trying to enter the U.S.

Since his election, President Barack Obama has taken an expansive view of legal authorities in the name of national security, asserting that he can order the deaths of U.S. citizens abroad who are suspected of terrorism without involvement by courts, investigate reporters as criminals and — in this case — read and copy the contents of computers carried by U.S. travelers without a good reason to suspect wrongdoing.

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/06/05/dept-of-homeland-security-laptops-phones-can-be-searched-based-on-hunches/

I sure am glad that Bush never did anything like this.  Oh wait, I seem to remember a bit of a hubbub about something?

"There can be no question about the legality or infamy of this action. Contact your Congresscritters and Senators- immediate impeachment is the only option." -Daily Kos. . .Jan 13th 2006

As a Democrat friend of mine said a couple of weeks ago: "I'm just upset because the President is openly doing all of the things we suspected Bush of doing but couldn't prove."

I guess we don't need this old ditty any more:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 09:20:24 am by Gaspar » Logged

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Gaspar
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« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2013, 09:06:46 am »



Jamie Dupree is live tweeting from a press conference with Senate leaders about the Verizon phone records scandal. Where Sen Diane Feinstein just said "It's called protecting America."

Can we send her back to Hogwarts?  Please?

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patric
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« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2013, 10:09:15 am »


It is specifically directed toward American Citizens.  Probably just the dirty Tea Partiers.



It's across-the-board wholesale spying on American citizens, and you want to squander any attempt at reform by imagining it to be partisan politics?
Clearly you are not an equal opportunity outrager.
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Gaspar
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« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2013, 10:48:15 am »

You mean they were spying on Liberals too? 

I'm sure this will upset many on this board, just as it did when the previous admin chose to spy on folks talking to terrorists.

Perhaps this will represent an opportunity to unite in common outrage over constitutional overreach.
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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2013, 10:55:25 am »

Go ahead and express your outrage. Just take your time and speak clearly into the stapler.
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« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2013, 11:22:36 am »


I'm sure this will upset many on this board, just as it did when the previous admin chose to spy on folks talking to terrorists.


No administration has the monopoly on enabling the Security State:

The law on which the order explicitly relies is the so-called "business records" provision of the Patriot Act, 50 USC section 1861.  "There is now a significant gap between what most Americans think the law allows and what the government secretly claims the law allows."
"Mmost Americans would be stunned to learn the details of how these secret court opinions have interpreted" the "business records" provision of the Patriot Act.

Privacy advocates have long warned that allowing the government to collect and store unlimited "metadata" is a highly invasive form of surveillance of citizens' communications activities. Those records enable the government to know the identity of every person with whom an individual communicates electronically, how long they spoke, and their location at the time of the communication.

Such metadata is what the US government has long attempted to obtain in order to discover an individual's network of associations and communication patterns. The request for the bulk collection of all Verizon domestic telephone records indicates that the agency is continuing some version of the data-mining program begun by the Bush administration in the immediate aftermath of the 9/11 attack.

The NSA, as part of a program secretly authorized by President Bush on 4 October 2001, implemented a bulk collection program of domestic telephone, internet and email records. A furore erupted in 2006 when USA Today reported that the NSA had "been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth" and was "using the data to analyze calling patterns in an effort to detect terrorist activity." Until now, there has been no indication that the Obama administration implemented a similar program.
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Gaspar
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« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2013, 11:32:00 am »

No administration has the monopoly on enabling the Security State:

The law on which the order explicitly relies is the so-called "business records" provision of the Patriot Act, 50 USC section 1861.  "There is now a significant gap between what most Americans think the law allows and what the government secretly claims the law allows."
"Mmost Americans would be stunned to learn the details of how these secret court opinions have interpreted" the "business records" provision of the Patriot Act.

Privacy advocates have long warned that allowing the government to collect and store unlimited "metadata" is a highly invasive form of surveillance of citizens' communications activities. Those records enable the government to know the identity of every person with whom an individual communicates electronically, how long they spoke, and their location at the time of the communication.

Such metadata is what the US government has long attempted to obtain in order to discover an individual's network of associations and communication patterns. The request for the bulk collection of all Verizon domestic telephone records indicates that the agency is continuing some version of the data-mining program begun by the Bush administration in the immediate aftermath of the 9/11 attack.

The NSA, as part of a program secretly authorized by President Bush on 4 October 2001, implemented a bulk collection program of domestic telephone, internet and email records. A furore erupted in 2006 when USA Today reported that the NSA had "been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth" and was "using the data to analyze calling patterns in an effort to detect terrorist activity." Until now, there has been no indication that the Obama administration implemented a similar program.



http://www.nationaljournal.com/politics/welcome-to-the-bush-obama-white-house-they-re-spying-on-us-20130606
Welcome to the era of Bush-Obama, a 16-year span of U.S. history that will be remembered for an unprecedented erosion of civil liberties and a disregard for transparency. On the war against a tactic—terrorism—and its insidious fallout, the United States could have skipped the 2008 election.

It made little difference.

Despite his clear and popular promises to the contrary, President Obama has not shifted the balance between security and freedom to a more natural state—one not blinded by worst fears and tarred by power grabs. If anything, things have gotten worse.


Killing civilians and U.S. citizens via drone
Seizing telephone records at the Associated Press in violation of Justice Department guidelines.
Accusing a respected Fox News reporter of engaging in a conspiracy to commit treason for doing his job
Detaining terrorist suspects at Guantanamo Bay, despite promises to end the ill-considered Bush policy
Even the IRS scandal, while not a matter of foreign policy, strikes at the heart of growing concerns among Americans that their privacy is government's playpen
« Last Edit: June 06, 2013, 11:34:55 am by Gaspar » Logged

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Gaspar
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« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2013, 11:46:24 am »

Now being slammed by the author of the Patriot Act.  Not a good year for Holder.

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Gaspar
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« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2013, 12:34:02 pm »

It turns out this will lead to an even broader scandal. Apparently, the NSA was collecting metadata from all carriers and on all citizens.  This would include members of congress, the suprime court, and other political leaders.  The NSA falls under the Executive branch.

From a separation of powers standpoint, for the Executive branch to be monitoring the activities of a co-equal branch of government represents a serious constitutional breech.

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« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2013, 12:53:51 pm »

I'm tired of Uncle Sam doing whatever he wants and telling me I this form my safety.

Eliminating the 4th amendment would make use safer.  Kill freedom of the press.  Habeous Corpus. Jury trials. More secret warrants. More spying on citizens.  No sarcasm - all those things will help protect us from outsiders.

Then all we need is protection from our government.
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Gaspar
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« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2013, 01:03:00 pm »

I'm tired of Uncle Sam doing whatever he wants and telling me I this form my safety.

Eliminating the 4th amendment would make use safer.  Kill freedom of the press.  Habeous Corpus. Jury trials. More secret warrants. More spying on citizens.  No sarcasm - all those things will help protect us from outsiders.

Then all we need is protection from our government.


Don't forget the second amendment.  Those guns might fall into the hands of terrorists.

I'm just trying to figure out if they are going through the amendments alphabetically or numerically. Tongue
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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2013, 01:27:35 pm »

My solution is to have all conversations in code.

The shoe is on the window.
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« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2013, 01:46:38 pm »

Doesn't the "F" in FISA stand for foreign?  Cheesy
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« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2013, 02:17:29 pm »

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALN7LTeLxtI[/youtube]
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Conan71
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« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2013, 02:31:58 pm »

Don't you know Mrs. Holder is getting tired of saying: "Another rough day at the office, honey?"
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