Mass Shootings the last six months

[Red Arrow]

Still, I'm completely in favor of keeping firearms out of the hands of stupid, incompetent people, which by definition is everyone except me.  I'm sure many of you feel the same. 

I agree except that I am not so sure about you.   

[patric]

Using that logic, if we limited beers to 8oz bottles it would cut drinking and driving deaths.    I don't buy causation.

Yet we limit the alcohol content to 3.2 for that very reason.  See how well it's working?   

[Gaspar]

I find it funny that we can have armed guards in our banks, malls, sporting events and grocery stores to protect our money, clothing, shoes, and professional athletes, but the concept of doing the same to protect the most valuable things in our lives, our children, is somehow distasteful.  

Biden may be a buffoon, but I have a feeling that even he cannot escape the most logical approach to avoiding tragedies like this in the future.  I think some of his recommendations on Tuesday will be surprisingly logical.

Good guys with guns are still the best defense against bad guys with guns.

[AquaMan]

I find it funny that we can have armed guards in our banks, malls, sporting events and grocery stores to protect our money, clothing, shoes, and professional athletes, but the concept of doing the same to protect the most valuable things in our lives, our children, is somehow distasteful. 

Biden may be a bafoon, but I have a feeling that even he cannot escape the most logical approach to avoiding tragedies like this in the future.  I think some of his recommendations on Tuesday will be surprisingly logical.

Good guys with guns are still the best defense against bad guys with guns.

Its buffoon. And one would gather you'd know that having read your name in the same context so many times.

I've never seen an armed guard at my bank and only one at my credit union. The only guards I've seen at malls are rousting teens and occasionally collaring a shoplifter. The Muskogee mall had guards and it did little to help. Best Buy had one too. Tulsa Vo-tech at Riverside has a guard shack and a couple of cars. They stare at you as you drive in and hit their siren if you speed. Very intimidating eh?

But lets analyze the situation further. How many armed guards do you see at an OU football game with 75,000 people? Think its enough to do the job? Lets say the whole OU security detail was there. Maybe 100? 100/75000 is 1 guard for every 750 people. That leaves no guards for the rest of the campus. Of course they won't be up on the upper levels, they will be at the gates probably or around the concessions. So, the real ratio is more like one per 7500. If one guard at the gate fails to stop a guy with some weapons and some 100 round clips those remaining guards are hopelessly outgunned and will wreak havoc.

I have no problem with guards at schools. If the public will pay for them, fine. From my experience, most are quite helpful in maintaining general respect for rules and order, not security from attack though. I walk into one high school with a lanyard and a card around my neck past a security station and no one even glances at me. Union high school has several thousand students and staff, acres of land and multiple buildings. How many guards would you think could do the job? One at every window, like where the Sandy Hook murderer gained access?

Its just silly to think that guards do anything more than keep honest people honest...sane people naively comfortable. Latest reports show about 80% of NRA members think some more regulation is a good idea. But not you. But I doubt you read this far anyway.

[Gaspar]

Its buffoon. And one would gather you'd know that having read your name in the same context so many times.

I've never seen an armed guard at my bank and only one at my credit union. The only guards I've seen at malls are rousting teens and occasionally collaring a shoplifter. The Muskogee mall had guards and it did little to help. Best Buy had one too. Tulsa Vo-tech at Riverside has a guard shack and a couple of cars. They stare at you as you drive in and hit their siren if you speed. Very intimidating eh?

But lets analyze the situation further. How many armed guards do you see at an OU football game with 75,000 people? Think its enough to do the job? Lets say the whole OU security detail was there. Maybe 100? 100/75000 is 1 guard for every 750 people. That leaves no guards for the rest of the campus. Of course they won't be up on the upper levels, they will be at the gates probably or around the concessions. So, the real ratio is more like one per 7500. If one guard at the gate fails to stop a guy with some weapons and some 100 round clips those remaining guards are hopelessly outgunned and will wreak havoc.

I have no problem with guards at schools. If the public will pay for them, fine. From my experience, most are quite helpful in maintaining general respect for rules and order, not security from attack though. I walk into one high school with a lanyard and a card around my neck past a security station and no one even glances at me. Union high school has several thousand students and staff, acres of land and multiple buildings. How many guards would you think could do the job? One at every window, like where the Sandy Hook murderer gained access?

Its just silly to think that guards do anything more than keep honest people honest...sane people naively comfortable. Latest reports show about 80% of NRA members think some more regulation is a good idea. But not you. But I doubt you read this far anyway.

Will you be upset if Biden recommends armed security at public schools?

[AquaMan]

Will you be upset if Biden recommends armed security at public schools?

Read further into my post. 

"I have no problem with guards at schools. If the public will pay for them, fine."

There is already armed security at many schools. The correct questions are how much armed security would be effective and how much in raised taxation or reduced academic offerings to pay for the security will be accepted.

[nathanm]

Will you be upset if Biden recommends armed security at public schools?

Do we not have armed resource officers in Oklahoma? When I was in high school back in Arkansas they started doing that at all the schools, or at least everything above elementary level.

[AquaMan]

I've only seen them at middle schools and high schools in the TPS district. Part of TPD with their own cars and specialized duties like hostile parents, drug usage, and parking. They are very good at those limited duties. Repelling an attack like Sandy would be a stretch.

[patric]

I've only seen them at middle schools and high schools in the TPS district. Part of TPD with their own cars and specialized duties like hostile parents, drug usage, and parking. They are very good at those limited duties. Repelling an attack like Sandy would be a stretch.

Not part of TPD, so they would only have to answer to the Superintendent and not have the same accountability as TPD.
...and lets remember that Columbine already had armed security on premises.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I've never seen an armed guard at my bank and only one at my credit union. The only guards I've seen at malls are rousting teens and occasionally collaring a shoplifter. The Muskogee mall had guards and it did little to help. Best Buy had one too. Tulsa Vo-tech at Riverside has a guard shack and a couple of cars. They stare at you as you drive in and hit their siren if you speed. Very intimidating eh?

But lets analyze the situation further. How many armed guards do you see at an OU football game with 75,000 people? Think its enough to do the job? Lets say the whole OU security detail was there. Maybe 100? 100/75000 is 1 guard for every 750 people. That leaves no guards for the rest of the campus. Of course they won't be up on the upper levels, they will be at the gates probably or around the concessions. So, the real ratio is more like one per 7500. If one guard at the gate fails to stop a guy with some weapons and some 100 round clips those remaining guards are hopelessly outgunned and will wreak havoc.

Its just silly to think that guards do anything more than keep honest people honest...sane people naively comfortable. Latest reports show about 80% of NRA members think some more regulation is a good idea. But not you. But I doubt you read this far anyway.

What bank/credit union do you go to??  TTCU and OCCU both have them.  F & M has them.  You may not always see them, though...

OU game is not a valid comparison - it's NOT soccer, where 10,000 of them may just riot and start beating/killing people.  I'm also inclined to believe that at the typical OU football game - or at many if not most college and higher football and baseball there are enough fans who would be willing and able to do something if that should occur.  Just wondering....

[Conan71]

You mean, bedwetters like Ronald Reagan?  Now I think I've heard everything...  

http://www.cringely.com/2012/12/24/reagan-and-newtown/

So Ronald Reagan has blood on his hands from Sandy Hook?

Where do you find this moonbat smile?  It's no wonder people like you are so delusional, you rely on un-accountable bloggers and editorials as fact-based hard news.

[heironymouspasparagus]

So Ronald Reagan has blood on his hands from Sandy Hook?

Where do you find this moonbat smile?  It's no wonder people like you are so delusional, you rely on un-accountable bloggers and editorials as fact-based hard news.

It's all those unprotected hits from playing soccer.  No helmet, no pads - crazed, murderous fans...

[AquaMan]

What bank/credit union do you go to??  TTCU and OCCU both have them.  F & M has them.  You may not always see them, though...

OU game is not a valid comparison - it's NOT soccer, where 10,000 of them may just riot and start beating/killing people.  I'm also inclined to believe that at the typical OU football game - or at many if not most college and higher football and baseball there are enough fans who would be willing and able to do something if that should occur.  Just wondering....

I was thinking immediately of Bank of America at 21st and Utica. Never saw a guard there and I banked there for many years til I wised up. Bank of Oklahoma in Brookside. Saw one there once and I have banked there for many years. I have personally never seen more than one old guard at TTCU though I've just been there for a year. I may not see them cause their busy watching TV monitors. That comforts you?

OU barely missed having a terrible disaster a few years ago when a young man decided to blow himself up rather than fans. Security hadn't noticed him. I doubt you guys would find any comparisons meaningful.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I think the whole world can rest easy now that Biden has stepped in with one of his infamous pronouncements.....I know I certainly feel more secure.


"Vice President Joe Biden said on Friday he was “shooting for Tuesday” to get President Barack Obama his recommendations on how to battle an epidemic of gun violence and warned “there’s no silver bullet” to stop the killing."

[Vashta Nerada]

I have personally never seen more than one old guard at TTCU though I've just been there for a year. I may not see them cause their busy watching TV monitors. That comforts you?

OU barely missed having a terrible disaster a few years ago when a young man decided to blow himself up rather than fans. Security hadn't noticed him. I doubt you guys would find any comparisons meaningful.

Here is what the TCC guard looks like:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk1bFJnnAkI&playnext=1&list=PL3694AA7163E48526[/youtube]

......and the OU Bomber (Wikipedia that) tried several times to get his TATP bomb in the game (picking a gate with no surveillance cameras).