Mass Shootings the last six months

[Townsend]

Different movie

[Conan71]

" I'm purposely turning away from wall-to-wall coverage. " Conan the Libertarian

Is there some reason to stay glued to this tragedy?  There's a whole lot of living still going on in the world. 

Politicizing the issue doesn't do a damn thing either, it's just tacky.  The truth is, there is no solid answer nor a solution for why these things happen nor how to keep it from happening again.  Since the dawn of mankind, men have done horrible and unspeakable things against one another.  Thinking we know how to stop this or one political train of thought has a better idea than another is nothing but pure hubris. 

[Teatownclown]

Is there some reason to stay glued to this tragedy?  There's a whole lot of living still going on in the world. 

Politicizing the issue doesn't do a damn thing either, it's just tacky.  The truth is, there is no solid answer nor a solution for why these things happen nor how to keep it from happening again.  Since the dawn of mankind, men have done horrible and unspeakable things against one another.  Thinking we know how to stop this or one political train of thought has a better idea than another is nothing but pure hubris. 

Majority of Americans Favor Gun Control Laws, Poll Shows
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-17/majority-of-americans-favor-gun-control-laws-poll-shows.html

Democracy.

[Townsend]

At Least 4 Dead in Apparent Colo. Murder-Suicide

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/dead-apparent-colo-murder-suicide-18004975#.UNCiTG80V8F

Four people were found dead Tuesday in Colorado after a woman called police to report a shooting and was apparently shot to death while she was on the phone.

Weld County sheriff's spokesman Tim Schwartz says dispatchers heard the woman who called 911 scream "No, no, no," and then they heard a gunshot. Schwartz says a man grabbed the phone and said he was going to kill himself, and dispatchers heard another shot.

The bodies were found in a home in a subdivision east of Longmont, which is about 35 miles north of Denver.

The dead included two men and two women, including one who appeared to be in her late teens or early 20s.

Schwartz says investigators have a possible motive for the shootings, but he refused to release details.

Schwartz said he believed no one escaped alive. He did not know if all four of the people lived there, and he was not sure if there had been any previous calls to police asking for help.

A handgun believed to be murder weapon was recovered. Police said numerous rounds had been fired from the weapon, but further details were not available. Police are convinced the gunman was one of the victims.

Authorities are awaiting a search warrant to search the home

[Townsend]

Cops: Man fired gun 50 times at Newport Beach mall to relieve stress

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/18/15994751-cops-man-fired-gun-50-times-at-newport-beach-mall-to-relieve-stress?lite

Depressed over the death of his grandmother and upset over being kicked out of his family’s Garden Grove home, Marcos Gurrola allegedly shot off 50 rounds from his pistol in the parking lot of a crowded Newport Beach, Calif., mall, police told NBC4.

Gurrola said he didn’t intend to shoot anyone and that he fires guns to relieve stress, according to police.

When he stopped firing, he put the safety back on the gun.

A man answering the door of the home refused to shed any light on the alleged gunman’s actions.

There were no injuries but there was panic as people ran from the bullets at the crowded mall on Saturday afternoon.

Gurrola was arrested next to his car, a white Honda Civic. He even warned police about a wire protruding from the car so they wouldn’t receive a shock, said Lt. Mike Peters, of the Orange County Sheriff’s Department.

“All I understand is he was stating there was ammunition in the car,” Peters said Monday. “There were areas in the car that he was mentioning that were reasons to be careful in entering the car.”

The sheriff’s department bomb squad took X-rays of the car and found more ammunition but no tripwires or explosives, officials said.

Shoppers at the upscale outdoor mall, Fashion Island, were questioning why anyone would take a chance with a gun and the emotions of a fragile community a day after the mass shooting at an elementary school in Connecticut.

Pretty much the craziest thing I’ve ever heard how anybody could do that to scare people with everything going on in the world,” said shopper David Lenz. “Who needs guys like that?”

[RecycleMichael]

Is there some reason to stay glued to this tragedy?  There's a whole lot of living still going on in the world. 

Thanks for saying that. Every time I hear more about this tragedy it pulls me back to a depressed state. I need to just turn off the evening news.

I don't know why this one effects me so. I have a daughter in an elementary school and I teach chess to a bunch of kids that are aged 7 to 10 one day a week at a school. But it is more than that kids died. This one just scares me more than the other public mass shootings.

Maybe because it seems so close to home because of the mental illness portion. I employ 120 workers with disabilities at my business. I have had very few instances of violent behaior but it has happened. Maybe it is because the Mom's obsession with guns so reminds me of my brother who owns a pawnshop in New Mexico that sells guns every day and his obsession with owning very powerful guns.

Maybe it is because I believe our President when he says something will be done. I pray he does.

I am a changed person after last Friday. I need to take time to compress my feelings before I can find a path to working toward an answer. I do know this. I have to hold back my anger whenever someone says more guns are the answer and school principals should be armed. My sister is a middle school principal in Orlando. Her job shouldn't involve her taking shooting lessons. 

[swake]

Is there some reason to stay glued to this tragedy?  There's a whole lot of living still going on in the world.  

Politicizing the issue doesn't do a damn thing either, it's just tacky.  The truth is, there is no solid answer nor a solution for why these things happen nor how to keep it from happening again.  Since the dawn of mankind, men have done horrible and unspeakable things against one another.  Thinking we know how to stop this or one political train of thought has a better idea than another is nothing but pure hubris.  

This is inherently political and cuts right to the core of the idea of the social contract.  The reason the right doesn’t want to talk about it is because a majority of people now want to curtail the ability to own certain weapons.

It’s a false argument to say there is “no solid answer nor a solution”. No, there isn’t an easy or simple and more importantly there isn’t a singular answer. You can’t stop sick people from getting weapons and killing people. But we can work to see that sick people are getting as much help as possible, make really deadly weapons much more difficult to get.
We can make these events more rare and less deadly when they do happen. If this shooter had not had an assault rifle and had only been able to kill 10 six year olds isn’t that still an improvement? Maybe only 30 people would have been shot in Colorado instead of 70.


How many lives is the rush you get from owning and sometimes shooting that macho gun worth? Be an adult and give a real answer. It’s only your 16 year old self that really needs that rifle to feel cool.

Get rid of the guns and play a damn video game. Owning a AR-15 shouldn’t be real.

[swake]

My kids are in Scouts, I was my son Tiger Scout den leader. Does your gun make you feel cool now?

[DolfanBob]

I love the Cub Scout hats. I was a Cub Scout and Webelo. That is where little boy's learn how to respect not only their elders, but life in general. I wish that more children would be involved in such positive groups and really enjoy their youth as it was meant to be. Innocent.

[TulsaRufnex]

http://www.theonion.com/video/in-wake-of-tragedy-americans-demand-reform-of-ever,30762/

[TheArtist]

 Watched a BBC video talking about Australia and how they curtailed gun crimes.  After a mass shooting there they instigated a buyback program to purchase guns from people and changed some other laws.  There were numerous mass shootings in the 16 years before (dont remember the number exactly) but in the 18 years since there have been...... 0   and gun deaths in general (suicide, accident, crime, etc.) has been cut in half saving hundreds of lives per year. 

[carltonplace]

If the problem is violent video games, shouldn't Japan have a BIG problem, since theirs are some of the most violent and sadistic around?

Ten-country comparison suggests there’s little or no link between video games and gun murders
Posted by Max Fisher on December 17, 2012 at 1:51 pm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/12/17/ten-country-comparison-suggests-theres-little-or-no-link-between-video-games-and-gun-murders/

Pretty sure the gamers in the Netherlands are playing Smurf games rather than HALO.

[Townsend]

Watched a BBC video talking about Australia and how they curtailed gun crimes.  After a mass shooting there they instigated a buyback program to purchase guns from people and changed some other laws.  There were numerous mass shootings in the 16 years before (dont remember the number exactly) but in the 18 years since there have been...... 0   and gun deaths in general (suicide, accident, crime, etc.) has been cut in half saving hundreds of lives per year. 

After a 1996 Mass Shooting, Australia Enacted Strict Gun Laws. It Hasn't Had a Similar Massacre Since.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2012/12/16/gun_control_after_connecticut_shooting_could_australia_s_laws_provide_a.html?wpisrc=most_viral

On April 28, 1996, a gunman opened fire on tourists in a seaside resort in Port Arthur, Tasmania. By the time he was finished, he had killed 35 people and wounded 23 more. It was the worst mass murder in Australia’s history.

Twelve days later, Australia’s government did something remarkable. Led by newly elected conservative Prime Minister John Howard, it announced a bipartisan deal with state and local governments to enact sweeping gun-control measures. A decade and a half hence, the results of these policy changes are clear: They worked really, really well.

At the heart of the push was a massive buyback of more than 600,000 semi-automatic shotguns and rifles, or about one-fifth of all firearms in circulation in Australia. The country’s new gun laws prohibited private sales, required that all weapons be individually registered to their owners, and required that gun buyers present a “genuine reason” for needing each weapon at the time of the purchase. (Self-defense did not count.) In the wake of the tragedy, polls showed public support for these measures at upwards of 90 percent.

What happened next has been the subject of several academic studies. Violent crime and gun-related deaths did not come to an end in Australia, of course. But as the Washington Post’s Wonkblog pointed out in August, homicides by firearm plunged 59 percent between 1995 and 2006, with no corresponding increase in non-firearm-related homicides. The drop in suicides by gun was even steeper: 65 percent. Studies found a close correlation between the sharp declines and the gun buybacks. Robberies involving a firearm also dropped significantly. Meanwhile, home invasions did not increase, contrary to fears that firearm ownership is needed to deter such crimes. But here’s the most stunning statistic. In the decade before the Port Arthur massacre, there had been 11 mass shootings in the country. There hasn’t been a single one in Australia since.

There have been some contrarian studies about the decrease in gun violence in Australia, including a 2006 paper that argued the decline in gun-related homicides after Port Arthur was simply a continuation of trends already under way. But that paper’s methodology has been discredited, which is not surprising when you consider that its authors were affiliated with pro-gun groups. Other reports from gun advocates have similarly cherry-picked anecdotal evidence or presented outright fabrications in attempting to make the case that Australia’s more-restrictive laws didn’t work. Those are effectively refuted by findings from peer-reviewed papers, which note that the rate of decrease in gun-related deaths more than doubled following the gun buyback, and that states with the highest buyback rates showed the steepest declines. A 2011 Harvard summary of the research concluded that, at the time the laws were passed in 1996, “it would have been difficult to imagine more compelling future evidence of a beneficial effect.”

Whether the same policies would work as well in the United States—or whether similar legislation would have any chance of being passed here in the first place—is an open question. Howard, the conservative leader behind the Australian reforms, wrote an op-ed in an Australian paper after visiting the United States in the wake of the Aurora shootings. He came away convinced that America needed to change its gun laws, but lamented its lack of will to do so.

There is more to this than merely the lobbying strength of the National Rifle Association and the proximity of the November presidential election. It is hard to believe that their reaction would have been any different if the murders in Aurora had taken place immediately after the election of either Obama or Romney. So deeply embedded is the gun culture of the US, that millions of law-abiding, Americans truly believe that it is safer to own a gun, based on the chilling logic that because there are so many guns in circulation, one's own weapon is needed for self-protection. To put it another way, the situation is so far gone there can be no turning back.
That’s certainly how things looked after the Aurora shooting. But after Sandy Hook, with the nation shocked and groping for answers once again, I wonder if Americans are still so sure that we have nothing to learn from Australia’s example.

[Townsend]

If it's near a school, we will be seeing it:

KOTV tweet:

BREAKING NEWS: Shots fired NEAR Celia Clinton Elementary School on North Harvard. We'll be live streaming video from SkyNews6 momentarily.

[Conan71]

This is inherently political and cuts right to the core of the idea of the social contract.  The reason the right doesn’t want to talk about it is because a majority of people now want to curtail the ability to own certain weapons.

It’s a false argument to say there is “no solid answer nor a solution”. No, there isn’t an easy or simple and more importantly there isn’t a singular answer. You can’t stop sick people from getting weapons and killing people. But we can work to see that sick people are getting as much help as possible, make really deadly weapons much more difficult to get.
We can make these events more rare and less deadly when they do happen. If this shooter had not had an assault rifle and had only been able to kill 10 six year olds isn’t that still an improvement? Maybe only 30 people would have been shot in Colorado instead of 70.


How many lives is the rush you get from owning and sometimes shooting that macho gun worth? Be an adult and give a real answer. It’s only your 16 year old self that really needs that rifle to feel cool.

Get rid of the guns and play a damn video game. Owning a AR-15 shouldn’t be real.

There currently is no workable solution, otherwise we wouldn't still have this problem swake.  Does making inflammatory or taunting statements help bring anyone to your way of thinking?  No.  Everyone needs to do a better job of seeking to understand each other instead of assuming there are only two ways of looking at something: "My way" or "Your way".

FWIW, it wouldn't change my life one iota if large capacity semi-auto rifles were banned from private sale and ownership.  They aren't legal for hunting (though a Mini-14 which comes standard with a five round magazine but can fire a 30 round mag is) and I don't know of anyone who keeps one handy as a home defense weapon, they aren't as practical or safe for it as a shotgun or handgun.

The shooter in this instance, the Colorado theater, and many other shootings before then could have caused every bit as much carnage with a simple 1911 style civilian issue .45.  You can empty a standard 7 round mag in 10 seconds or less and reload in a matter of a couple more seconds.  You can empty a 6 round .357 revolver in roughly the same time and re-load with a speed loader in a matter of seconds.  Even if you had to manually re-load a revolver, an average shooter could empty and re-load as much as three times a minute.  It's not like there is anyone bearing down on them with any sort of defense once the shooting has started.

I really don't have a problem with an assault weapon ban.  I simply believe this doesn't change anything and talking about it in the wake of a tragedy is a knee-jerk approach.  If you went back to muskets and derringers only, don't be surprised if sick clucks like this resort to explosives.

You tried to make a point with your original post that getting rid of assault rifles would end these tragedies or limit the impact.  One other common thread through all these events is these were places that the occupants were expected to be pretty much defenseless.  That's what these people get off on.  It's not an armed struggle or the fear of someone else stopping them that they thrive on.  These are people who have felt powerless and now they hold all the power. 

The Colorado movie theater was posted for no weapons, so it was a safe assumption the shooter would face no resistance.  Same with a Sikh temple, an office, a mall, and a school.

Personally, I think the best deterrent to ending school violence is armed guards posted at any entrance or exit and I do believe conceal carry is a good deterrent in the rest of our violent world.  It sucks this is the world our children are growing up in, but this is what it has become.  The only way you can successfully and safely defend against a gunman is with a firearm.  That's a simple matter of human nature and physics, unless you are lucky enough to sneak up behind him/her with a sharp object.