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April 10, 2021, 10:21:08 pm
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Author Topic: WTH Is Going On At Expo Square?  (Read 13052 times)
Conan71
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« on: December 10, 2012, 10:09:54 pm »

Does anyone else get the sinking feeling that:

A) The Fair Board and county commissioners don't have the slightest clue what is going on at Fair Meadows nor do they understand the far-reaching effects of their agreement with the Creeks?

or

B) There is something corrupt and seedy going on with the Creek Nation.

Seems mighty strange they jumped in bed with the tribe with little to no public discussion on this.

Discuss.
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Hoss
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« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2012, 10:11:02 pm »

Does anyone else get the sinking feeling that:

A) The Fair Board and county commissioners don't have the slightest clue what is going on at Fair Meadows nor do they understand the far-reaching effects of their agreement with the Creeks?

or

B) There is something corrupt and seedy going on with the Creek Nation.

Seems mighty strange they jumped in bed with the tribe with little to no public discussion on this.

Discuss.

Fair board.  Sounds like the same ole same ole.  Where's Randi Miller, BTW?
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AquaMan
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« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2012, 09:41:53 am »

Does anyone else get the sinking feeling that:

A) The Fair Board and county commissioners don't have the slightest clue what is going on at Fair Meadows nor do they understand the far-reaching effects of their agreement with the Creeks?

AND

B) There is something corrupt and seedy going on with the Creek Nation.

Seems mighty strange they jumped in bed with the tribe with little to no public discussion on this.

Discuss.

FIFY
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onward...through the fog
carltonplace
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« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2012, 12:05:36 pm »

I thought the Creeks liked gaming...or I guess they like any gaming that they have control over.

So this is clearly a conflict of interest. Might be time to drive by Smaligo's house in Brady Heights and see if there are any new wings or add ons.
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sgrizzle
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« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2012, 01:46:46 pm »

There's still 3 weeks left in 2012 for the county commissioners to pull off a trifecta.
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Townsend
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« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2012, 01:47:33 pm »

It's like the Murphy's have taken control.
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Conan71
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« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2012, 02:00:06 pm »

It's like the Murphy's have taken never given up control.

FIFY
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« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2012, 02:29:40 pm »

There's still 3 weeks left in 2012 for the county commissioners to pull off a trifecta.

something brewing with the old ball park?
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sgrizzle
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« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2012, 06:44:55 am »

something brewing with the old ball park?

Pretty sure they'd have to set it on fire to be on par with the Racetrack and Vision2 failures
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patric
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« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2012, 01:30:23 pm »

Pretty sure they'd have to set it on fire to be on par with the Racetrack and Vision2 failures


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DTowner
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« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2012, 02:33:47 pm »




I miss Doug Marlette.
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« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2012, 02:37:49 pm »

Two lessons from recent fiasco at Expo Square:

1)  Industries wholly dependent upon subsidies for survival will fight and fight hard to preseve their subsidies; and

2)  Naming a government owned property after another sovereign government is generallly a bad idea.
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« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2012, 02:55:34 pm »

Two lessons from recent fiasco at Expo Square:

1)  Industries wholly dependent upon subsidies for survival will fight and fight hard to preseve their subsidies; and

2)  Naming a government owned property after another sovereign government is generallly a bad idea.

Subsidies create more of whatever is being subsidized. – Lew Rockwell

Subsidize failure and you will get more failure.  Wink
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Townsend
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« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2012, 05:07:20 pm »

Starting to sound like the Fair Board may need to pay for naming rights.

The Tulsa County Fair Board Center.

Modified to add:

Fair Board Rescinds Deal With Muscogee Creek Nation To Rename Expo Square

http://www.newson6.com/story/20329912/fair-board-meeting-to-reconsider-live-horse-racing-at-fair-meadows?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Quote
TULSA, Oklahoma - The Tulsa County fair board met Wednesday afternoon to decide whether to honor two "forgotten" agreements and continue live horse racing at Fair Meadows.
The Tulsa County Public Facilities Authority decided at the meeting to rescind their $1 million deal with the Muscogee Creek Nation to rename the expo center at the fairgrounds to "Creek Nation Center." The deal included ending live horse racing at Fair Meadows racetrack.

The deal was to take effect in January 2013.

On Monday, the fair board announced it was reconsidering the 2013 season after the Fair Meadows race director admitted he already signed deals with two horsemen groups without board members' knowledge.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 05:10:25 pm by Townsend » Logged
TulsaRufnex
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« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2012, 05:23:20 pm »

Does anyone else get the sinking feeling that:

A) The Fair Board and county commissioners don't have the slightest clue what is going on at Fair Meadows nor do they understand the far-reaching effects of their agreement with the Creeks?

A few years back it was money from Fair Meadows that was paying the bills and it was considered a money-maker, while Bells was not.
I have a list somewhere of how much the county got from everybody, including the Drillers, the health dept, Big Splash, and Fair Meadows... Fair Meadows payments dwarfed all others...
At that time, nothing was printed by the Tulsa World pointing out that alot of those payments were being subsidized by $$$ from the Creeks and other tribes...

After the year by year drip, drip, drip of reductions in ticket receipts from the racetrack, the only remaining aspects of horse racing at Fair Meadows that justify continued revenue streams for the county are based on gambling and payments from the tribes.

And we're stuck with a horsetrack with dilapidated stands surrounding a parking lot.

Yep.  Sounds like a fair deal to me.   Grin

From April 2011...... Fees paid by gaming tribes continue dramatic climb
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20110418_11_A1_CUTLIN909175

Quote
Tribes operating casinos paid the state $118 million in fees last year, up from $14 million in 2006, the first full fiscal year that gaming compacts between the tribes and the state were in effect.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tribal gaming payments to the state

2006: $14.2 million

2007: $46.8 million

2008: $81.4 million

2009: $105.5 million

2010: $118.2 million

Source: Office of State Finance
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Tribal payments
Gaming compact payments to the state by tribe - 2010 fiscal year:

Chickasaw Nation, $33,330,424

Choctaw Nation, $22,753,832

Cherokee Nation, $12,208,041

Muscogee (Creek) Nation, $8,637,622

Quapaw Tribe, $5,706,714

Citizen Potawatomi, $5,499,238

Otoe-Missouria, $5,051,241

Osage, $4,858,437



B) There is something corrupt and seedy going on with the Creek Nation.

Seems mighty strange they jumped in bed with the tribe with little to no public discussion on this.

Discuss.

Actually, I bet it made sense to both parties financially.
The tribe takes over naming rights from QT in exchange for closing down a dilapidated racetrack, and disappoints the dwindling denizens of fans who go to the track.
The tribe saves millions of dollars in subsidy payments to said failing racetrack while raising its own public profile.
The county makes money and no longer has to incur costs to maintain dilapidated racetrack.

IMHO, this was a Win-Win... however, nobody asked the others getting money from the tribes (Remington Park, etc), who would rather have a lose-lose for Tulsa County and the Creeks...

Don't blame the county or the tribe... blame the horse gambling game... follow the money... then see who pays, and who benefits...


Muscogee (Creek) Nation gets naming rights for Tulsa's Expo Square

04 November 2012
http://www.nativetimes.com/business/news/8035-muscogee-creek-nation-gets-naming-rights-for-tulsas-expo-square

Quote
“We see this as a win-win,” Muscogee (Creek) Nation Principal Chief George Tiger said Friday at a press conference at the tribe’s headquarters in Okmulgee, Okla. “We see this as an opportunity to promote not only events at the fairgrounds, but ourselves as well. This is a tool not only for the tribe, but for the Expo Square as well.

“We’re just blessed we can do it. This site is within our original jurisdiction and this can be used as a blueprint for other tribes to do similar partnerships.”

Approved unanimously Thursday by the Tulsa County fair board, the agreement also includes a provision that Fair Meadows, a horse racing track on the fairgrounds’ property, will stop conducting live races. Prior to the Muscogee (Creek) Nation’s new agreement, the track was partially subsidized through a compact with the Cherokee, Muscogee (Creek) and Osage nations, which all have at least one casino within 20 miles of the fairgrounds.

Signed in 2005, the 15-year compact required the three tribes to contribute at least a combined $2 million to the track’s purse fund in exchange for Fair Meadows’ management not installing gaming machines. The agreement was also contingent upon the track hosting at least 400 live races annually during its 34-day season.


Principal Chief George Tiger would not comment on how much the tribe paid annually to the fund other than the Muscogee (Creek) Nation paid more into it than the other two and that the overall savings to the tribe would make up for the seven-figure yearly price tag.

“We see it as a savings,” he said. “Whatever money we were paying out to them before will be coming back into our coffers.”

Over the last seven years, Fair Meadows has lost at least $695,000 each year thanks in part to dwindling attendance. Under the agreement, the fairgrounds board has the option to repurpose the racetrack if it chooses.

“Horse racing’s no longer a spectator sport,” Fair Meadows race director Ron Shotts. “It’s a participant sport. We’re averaging maybe 400 people per day at the track. The facts were what they were.”

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Although the tribe will not be putting in a casino at 15th and Yale, revenue from its gaming facilities made the acquisition possible. The tribe’s two other multi-million dollar real estate purchases this year – the Riverwalk Crossing shopping center in Jenks, Okla., and the Okmulgee Country Club – were paid for through the capitol improvements portion of the tribe’s budget.

“Gaming dollars paid for this (the naming rights),” Tiger said. “Money that was already going to Fair Meadows is paying for this.”
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 05:57:17 pm by TulsaRufnex » Logged

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