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November 23, 2017, 10:50:29 am
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Author Topic: Tulsa Public Schools Spending  (Read 33115 times)
patric
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These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« on: April 07, 2012, 12:56:18 pm »

Another 150 teachers jobs on the cutting block, confusion and hardship as parents try to cope with school properties being sold off...
so you wonder where the education money is going these days?

http://www.newson6.com/story/17354806/inside-tulsa-public-schools-high-tech-security-center

At least the kids will know who George Orwell was.  Cheesy

But seriously, why did the ability to intercept 911 calls and divert them to campus security become necessary?
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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
ZYX
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« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2012, 02:16:56 pm »

What a ridiculous waste of money. Things like this would be much better to add after (in this order):

More teachers are hired and buildings and technology are updated.

The intercepting 911 calls very little sense to me, also.
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shadows
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« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2012, 02:57:08 pm »


Tulsa public system is the number one bureaucracy in Tulsa surpassing even the glass cube of city hall.   They seem to have no intentions to educate the children but instead to provide for the collections of taxes for the maintenance of their bureaucracy.  Under the guise of the well used cliché “It is for the children” it continues to burden the working poor with children who have a need for public education.  The fundamentals needed to educate the children are written off when increasing monies are spent on sports thus leaving the book learning to a disinterest group of teachers and students.

If the citizens would close the coffee shop, in the education center and reduce the staff to people without a teaching certificate, placing those qualified to teach in the class rooms, it not only would reduce taxpayers cost but provide a more balanced education.  The old saying that the bigger makes it better does not apply in the Tulsa public system.     
   



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patric
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These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2012, 03:31:57 pm »

What a ridiculous waste of money. Things like this would be much better to add after (in this order):

More teachers are hired and buildings and technology are updated.

The intercepting 911 calls very little sense to me, also.


I also thought interfering with a 911 call was a federal crime. 
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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
jacobi
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« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2012, 07:53:44 pm »

My wife is a middle school teacher for TPS.  She is fully dedicated to education of young people.  From my observations of her struggles with project school house it seems that alot the districts problems are administrational.  The new principle at her school was so bad, the classes so overpacked that the parents all complained.  The story made the world.  Additionally, she spends so much time fruit to comply to endless reading standards and testing programs, I'm surprised that she does have time to teach anyone anything.
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ZYX
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« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2012, 10:15:20 pm »

My wife is a middle school teacher for TPS.  She is fully dedicated to education of young people.  From my observations of her struggles with project school house it seems that alot the districts problems are administrational.  The new principle at her school was so bad, the classes so overpacked that the parents all complained.  The story made the world.  Additionally, she spends so much time fruit to comply to endless reading standards and testing programs, I'm surprised that she does have time to teach anyone anything.

The amount of regulation and broad sweep standardization has ruined the public education system.
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nathanm
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« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2012, 11:45:02 pm »

The amount of regulation and broad sweep standardization has ruined the public education system.

I think that's an overly simplistic statement. Many of the regulations were and are absolutely necessary to get districts to provide the resources necessary to educate kids with disabilities, minorities, and others who were for a very long time almost completely ignored by the public school systems. That's not to say that there aren't any useless or even harmful regulations, mind you.

I suspect much of the "decline" in many districts is due to them no longer being able to kick out the people with learning disabilities and/or nonviolent behavioral issues and stricter enforcement of truancy laws and laws against child labor that keep the people least likely to be high achievers out. In other words, they're no longer allowed to juke the stats by ignoring a large part of their "customer" base.
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"Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration" --Abraham Lincoln
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2012, 07:36:12 am »

My wife is a middle school teacher for TPS.  She is fully dedicated to education of young people.  From my observations of her struggles with project school house it seems that alot the districts problems are administrational.  The new principle at her school was so bad, the classes so overpacked that the parents all complained.  The story made the world.  Additionally, she spends so much time fruit to comply to endless reading standards and testing programs, I'm surprised that she does have time to teach anyone anything.


And I bet that one of her top five complaints is lack of parental participation in their children's education.

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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

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custosnox
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« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2012, 09:03:32 am »

I think that's an overly simplistic statement. Many of the regulations were and are absolutely necessary to get districts to provide the resources necessary to educate kids with disabilities, minorities, and others who were for a very long time almost completely ignored by the public school systems. That's not to say that there aren't any useless or even harmful regulations, mind you.

I suspect much of the "decline" in many districts is due to them no longer being able to kick out the people with learning disabilities and/or nonviolent behavioral issues and stricter enforcement of truancy laws and laws against child labor that keep the people least likely to be high achievers out. In other words, they're no longer allowed to juke the stats by ignoring a large part of their "customer" base.
Oh, you mean the kids that think too much or have trouble following along so the schools answer is to tell the parents to drug em into a zombie state so that they are easier to handle?
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nathanm
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« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2012, 02:52:45 pm »

Oh, you mean the kids that think too much or have trouble following along so the schools answer is to tell the parents to drug em into a zombie state so that they are easier to handle?

No, I mean that in the past the school's answer was to not let them attend. How do you think it is that so many charter schools end up with better stats than the public system? It's not because they're generally "better." (although in some cases that may be true) It's because they simply refuse to deal with kids with behavioral issues, learning disabilities, or other problems.

A friend of mine has a kid that was diagnosed with dysgraphia and bipolar disorder. The charter school she attends has a solution: Ignore the problem so they don't have to hire an occupational therapist to help with the writing issues and ignore the bipolar diagnosis and refuse to make reasonable accomodations when she has trouble controlling her behavior, instead choosing to send her home. There's a long story behind why she's in the charter school to begin with (and why she's still there), but suffice it to say it's been an enormous challenge to get them to comply with the law.
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"Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration" --Abraham Lincoln
guido911
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« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2012, 03:15:35 pm »

And that's why there are private schools and schools geared towards special needs children out there. Don't like public schools, send them elsewhere or home school. Given the resources available, union demands, safety, parental apathy, and every other factor outside actual teaching, I'm surprised public schools are doing anything well.
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jacobi
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« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2012, 04:20:08 pm »

I too was diagnosed with dysgraphia.  Getting an iep and having it constantly maintained took a lawsuit.  Anyhoo...

My wife complains a bit about parental involvement.  Some of her students have told her that she is nothing more than an overpaid babysitter because that is the level at which their parent(s) value education.  When a kid has a parent or both parents that work menial service jobs (wal-mart, home depot etc.) it is codified in their minds that that is what adults do.  Why bother finishing your hs education when the result is the same (menial job) whether they do or not?  It's an endemic, multi-generational apathy.
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custosnox
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« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2012, 04:28:08 pm »

I too was diagnosed with dysgraphia.  Getting an iep and having it constantly maintained took a lawsuit.  Anyhoo...

My wife complains a bit about parental involvement.  Some of her students have told her that she is nothing more than an overpaid babysitter because that is the level at which their parent(s) value education.  When a kid has a parent or both parents that work menial service jobs (wal-mart, home depot etc.) it is codified in their minds  that that is what adults do.  Why bother finishing your hs education when the result is the same (menial job) whether they do or not?  It's an endemic, multi-generational apathy.
My kids teachers have always loved me, because all they had to do was ask if my kids if they wanted them to call me and they would straighten up real quick.  They said that so many of the kids would respond that the parent wouldn't care, the reason why is because they wouldn't.  I've been known to sit in my kids classroom with them if they didn't want to straighten up (now that they are older they are horrified at me doing this again).  Your right, the lack of parental involvement is a big problem with the school systems, but that doesn't mean that we should lower our educational standards to match the parents apathy.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2012, 09:43:19 pm »

I too was diagnosed with dysgraphia.  Getting an iep and having it constantly maintained took a lawsuit.  Anyhoo...

My wife complains a bit about parental involvement.  Some of her students have told her that she is nothing more than an overpaid babysitter because that is the level at which their parent(s) value education.  When a kid has a parent or both parents that work menial service jobs (wal-mart, home depot etc.) it is codified in their minds that that is what adults do.  Why bother finishing your hs education when the result is the same (menial job) whether they do or not?  It's an endemic, multi-generational apathy.


Not just poor parents with that attitude.  Just saw an Edmond school mom complaining about a plan Edmond is working on for a late start one day a week.  She had the 'soccer mom' look and the big SUV behind her to back it up!  Complaining about how the kids would be her responsibility for an extra hour a week...

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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
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« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2012, 06:29:54 am »

   A thought occurred to me that so much of our school problems are related to the kids not having good parents with good life skills/habits and parenting skills.  This even spills over into the "special needs" debate and the cry for "simple accommodations" for them.  If the teacher is struggling to take care of the average kid and keep the classroom in line, they aren't going to have much time for that next level of effort taking care of the special needs kids.  But even then many a special needs kid can have a better lot if their parents are also capable.

  Anywhoo, the thought was, if its the parents that are a good portion of the problem... Why don't we then really focus on teaching kids how to be good parents and people with good life skills?  Todays students are tomorrows parents.  They may not excell on the math tests, but their children will.   Break the generational cycle.

  This doesn't need to be done in every school.  I have always said that not every program will work for every school for the demographics are different. 

  Back to breaking that generational cycle.  I have seen many an instance where the parent may not have been all that educated, but they were good parents who made sure their children learned their good life/parenting habits AND made sure their children learned in school.  It may be that in many an instance we are teaching the wrong things in some of our schools. 
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