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November 21, 2018, 09:49:38 am
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Author Topic: (PROJECT) A Gathering Place For Tulsa  (Read 228529 times)
rebound
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« Reply #1125 on: September 13, 2018, 09:44:30 am »

So those bicycle cops are actually being paid as private security?  If GP is a private attraction, fine, just be upfront about it.

I see the bike cops as a separate topic.   There is a bucket of money set aside for hiring additional security for the park.  Whether that security is private or not should be immaterial, as long as they enforce the rules correctly.   The question is regarding the rules.

Having said that, I was over there yesterday walking the dog, and the guard on the trail along the neighborhood was aggressively intercepting bicycles trying to get into the part.   I don't know whether he was just having a bad day, or if he was expecting me to be an a$$ because of the dog (which I was not, I am following the rules to the letter, while arguing for some moderation), but he had a bit of "stick up somewhere" and was just generally not pleasant.   I chatted him up for a while and he settled down, but my overall impression is he could have used a bit more people skills. 

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« Reply #1126 on: September 13, 2018, 12:58:43 pm »

Perhaps they need better "no dogs/no bikes" signs at all the entrances.

I can understand why they do not want dogs in the park.  There are multiple areas with children's play zones some composed of large swaths of sand, others with lots of water features (some right in the sidewalks on the ground), artificial turf, etc.  I heard the sand and water elements were specifically tailored for kids with autism in mind.  Anyway, wouldn't want a dog pissing or pooping in any of those areas. Plus, much of the areas off the trails are either contained gardens in a way, or open lawns meant for sitting on, and play areas.

Also, there are lots of very little kids/toddlers darting here and there that might run in front of a bike.   Plus many of the trails and areas can get you "lost" inside a play area with either a bike or a dog ending up in a spot where they shouldn't be and its difficult to weave your way out. It can often be tricky to see what trail is a "main trail" leading through a couple of areas where children are crossing, versus a trail leading "into" a contained area where you will find yourself having to stop and figure out how to get out, or trails that lead to non bike friendly stairs, narrow winding pedestrian paths, etc.  Even on foot it can be tricky to navigate, let alone on a bike, and some areas are designed that way intentionally in order to get you to explore and walk more. 

Much of the parks trails are simply not designed for bikes, or for pets.
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« Reply #1127 on: September 13, 2018, 01:47:32 pm »

Perhaps they need better "no dogs/no bikes" signs at all the entrances.

I can understand why they do not want dogs in the park.  There are multiple areas with children's play zones some composed of large swaths of sand, others with lots of water features (some right in the sidewalks on the ground), artificial turf, etc.  I heard the sand and water elements were specifically tailored for kids with autism in mind.  Anyway, wouldn't want a dog pissing or pooping in any of those areas. Plus, much of the areas off the trails are either contained gardens in a way, or open lawns meant for sitting on, and play areas.

Also, there are lots of very little kids/toddlers darting here and there that might run in front of a bike.   Plus many of the trails and areas can get you "lost" inside a play area with either a bike or a dog ending up in a spot where they shouldn't be and its difficult to weave your way out. It can often be tricky to see what trail is a "main trail" leading through a couple of areas where children are crossing, versus a trail leading "into" a contained area where you will find yourself having to stop and figure out how to get out, or trails that lead to non bike friendly stairs, narrow winding pedestrian paths, etc.  Even on foot it can be tricky to navigate, let alone on a bike, and some areas are designed that way intentionally in order to get you to explore and walk more. 

Much of the parks trails are simply not designed for bikes, or for pets.

Agreed.  But there are main trails that could be easily marked (certain striping on the ground, or similar) that would allow for passage of bikes (walked, preferably) and dogs (on leash) through the park.  Or just restrict the play area in general, and allow for passage in other areas of the park.     
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« Reply #1128 on: September 13, 2018, 07:18:11 pm »

Agreed.  But there are main trails that could be easily marked (certain striping on the ground, or similar) that would allow for passage of bikes (walked, preferably) and dogs (on leash) through the park.  Or just restrict the play area in general, and allow for passage in other areas of the park.     

I was hoping for a couple bike only paths through the park.  I guess you have the MV trail that I’m sure will get more use once there is a pedestrian bridge to cross.
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« Reply #1129 on: September 15, 2018, 09:56:31 pm »

I guess they just gotta have their "pipe dream"....  I suspect dog owners bringing their pets is gonna be a non-event - most if not all would pick up the 'deposits'.   The big source of that sort of problem with be the feral dogs running loose unaccompanied by owners, particularly at night, and feral cats - they will love those sandboxes!!

And possums, raccoons, and miscellaneous other wildlife.

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« Reply #1130 on: September 16, 2018, 06:29:16 pm »

This from a friend's Facebook page...
"The lighting is thoughtfully done in a beautiful way. LED lights are sustainable and the lights on poles are pointed down and domed so there is as little light pollution as possible. This park is the former home of the secret dens of our neighborhood foxes and the nests of neighborhood owls. Once the construction is past, I bet the wonderful critters of Mapleridge will return to the wilder areas of the park and I am grateful that they will not be inhibited by bright lights. Also, when it is time for humans to leave, the lights will be dimmed in stages as our signal to leave the park to the night creatures."

Im curious what the blue lights atop the poles are.  Maybe a way to keep Inhofe from landing there?  Grin
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« Reply #1131 on: September 16, 2018, 07:09:55 pm »

Im curious what the blue lights atop the poles are.  Maybe a way to keep Inhofe from landing there?  Grin

They designate emergency call box stations. Similar to this

https://www.caseemergencysystems.com/products/blue-light-tower/

« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 07:17:38 pm by dbacksfan 2.0 » Logged
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« Reply #1132 on: September 20, 2018, 01:56:35 pm »

Quote
Gathering Place part two: Tulsa Children's Museum Discovery Lab reveals new design

Officials on Thursday unveiled a new design and renderings for the $45 million Tulsa Children's Museum Discovery Lab, the phase II centerpiece of freshly minted Gathering Place.

Located at Riverside Drive and 33rd Place and designed by Tulsa's KKT Architects, the roughly 50,000-square-foot facility will anchor the south end of the park. Workers are expected to break ground on the facility in March or April, with completion anticipated in late summer 2020.

"We envision a dynamic learning space, dynamic in the sense that children, through full-body, immersive experiences, are encouraged to problem solving and critical thinking and creativity," said Ray Vandiver, executive director of the museum. "The exhibits present a challenge. They provide the tools for the children and their caregivers to approach the challenge in their own way. But there is no one solution."

The George Kaiser Family Foundation, developer of Gathering Place, pledged $10 million in land for the museum, whose construction costs will run about $35 million, Vandiver said.

"The focus in both organizations is bringing together families, providing rich family experiences but also providing for Tulsa, the diverse communities of Tulsa," he said. "Given those two alignments, it really works."

Thursday's unveiling culminated a process that has taken architects through three designs and as many locations, said Sarah Gould, a principal with KKT. The final site still could shift slightly north, she said.

"It went from a building in a park to a building integrated with a park setting," Gould said. "Now it's close to the street, so it's much more urban and kind of creates a boundary to the park edge."

While conceiving the new museum, officials visited like facilities in places such as Austin, Texas, and Bentonville, Arkansas, in an attempt to bring the best of those museums to Tulsa. While a park enhancement, Discovery Lab will operate independently as its own nonprofit.

Gathering Place leadership has said it will devise other components of phase II after it evaluates the performance of the 66-acre, $465 million first phase, which opened to the public Sept. 8.

"They (Gathering Place officials) have their own identity and we can't lose that," said Jim Boulware, a KKT principal. "We've kept their identity but it (museum) still fits in the Gathering Place."



The museum will include a two-story lobby and a 20,000-square-foot exhibit hall that can be divided into galleries. Outside is a 250- to 300-seat amphitheater and common area and 160 parking spaces. The exterior of the facility features undulating, earth-toned brick and three shades of blue glass. The Discovery Lab sign will be dichroic, capable of showing different colors when viewed at different locations.

The current museum at Owen Park accommodates about 120,000 children and family members annually, a number feasibility studies say will grow to 200,000 at Gathering Place. Current field trip numbers — 20,000 per year — are expected to double.

"You can imagine when we're in the Gathering Place, the regional draw that we're going to have just for field trips, not even families," said Anne Mannell, director of organizational development for Discovery Lab. "There was a lot of expectation and needs around this building. It nails it. When we saw it, we were like, `Yeah.'"

Also part of the facility will be five classrooms incorporated into Tulsa Public Schools’ STEM Center, a $4.5 million TPS bond project. Each 900-square-foot classroom will have collapsible partitions to create spaces as large as needed.

"One of the main purposes of the museum is to help prepare children for the future," Vandiver said. "In this knowledge economy, technology is really a springboard to future careers and success.

"STEM — science, technology, engineering, math — has become a significant vehicle that the museum uses to help prepare children for the future."



https://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/gathering-place-part-two-tulsa-children-s-museum-discovery-lab/article_6c4571e7-5f59-5be7-94af-7ddf35d1c8b8.html
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« Reply #1133 on: September 20, 2018, 02:43:59 pm »


The article mentions this will be at 33rd Pl & Riverside, is that correct?  I thought it was going to be closer to 31st?



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« Reply #1134 on: September 20, 2018, 08:05:21 pm »

The renderings of the children's museum look OK/quality.  But, on first blush it looks like it could be a building at TU or ORU or on a medical campus.  Why wouldn't a children's museum have an iconic and playful/whimsical attitude in its exterior? I don't see much to appeal to a child's imagination - isn't that  the point?  Why not an iconic design? No offense intended because maybe it's what the owners wanted, but we don't get a lot of iconic designs done locally. Hard to figure. I'm not a fan of all kinds of wild stuff, but BIG would have been a good designer choice. Something more memorable than a slab rectangle box. KKT tornado bldg. type creativity. Or the Theater-At-Cincinnati design for the PAC that was rejected. Having said all that, I'm sure it will be a quality place and maybe I haven't seen all the pics.
 
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« Reply #1135 on: September 20, 2018, 10:31:21 pm »

The renderings of the children's museum look OK/quality.  But, on first blush it looks like it could be a building at TU or ORU or on a medical campus.  Why wouldn't a children's museum have an iconic and playful/whimsical attitude in its exterior? I don't see much to appeal to a child's imagination - isn't that  the point?  Why not an iconic design? No offense intended because maybe it's what the owners wanted, but we don't get a lot of iconic designs done locally. Hard to figure. I'm not a fan of all kinds of wild stuff, but BIG would have been a good designer choice. Something more memorable than a slab rectangle box. KKT tornado bldg. type creativity. Or the Theater-At-Cincinnati design for the PAC that was rejected. Having said all that, I'm sure it will be a quality place and maybe I haven't seen all the pics.

I prefer the earlier renderings of a less-rectangular building.  Still trying to figure out where this is located?
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« Reply #1136 on: September 20, 2018, 11:07:17 pm »

Think it's on southern edge of park right off Riverside. Seems like they're going to have to make the parking lot immediately south of 31st permanent. Shuttle buses won't work as #1 permanent parking solution ----- if your goal is to have Tulsans gather together.. Seems like parking lot and museum building with a few acres of greenery...last 30 acres.
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« Reply #1137 on: September 21, 2018, 07:01:04 am »

Think it's on southern edge of park right off Riverside. Seems like they're going to have to make the parking lot immediately south of 31st permanent. Shuttle buses won't work as #1 permanent parking solution ----- if your goal is to have Tulsans gather together.. Seems like parking lot and museum building with a few acres of greenery...last 30 acres.

South of Crow Creek where the apartments used to be?  I thought that was all going to be rebuilt as mixed-use residential?  The original plan was to have this be at 31st & Riverside north of the creek which I think is a better location and you could have additional parking there for the museum and park.  
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 07:20:08 am by SXSW » Logged

 
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« Reply #1138 on: September 21, 2018, 07:50:13 am »

Does anyone know how it is actually structured?  I think I get what we've been told:  that Tulsa's new park doesn't really belong to Tulsa or the public, it's a private entity that intends to allow people to use it.  That obviously has positive and negative aspects that we could debate, but the City is almost certainly better off with the Gathering Place no matter what. Heck, we all know the City as park steward doesn't always work out for the best.

But I'm still curious:  Does the City or community have any right to a say on what rules apply or who gets banned for "not behaving in the spirit of the Gathering Place?"    Does Riverparks still have authority over the pass through trails, or could the private entity decide dogs or cyclists passing between park features is also undesirable?  Who determines what is inappropriate clothing or offensive language?  Who gets to make up whatever new rules or modify existing rules?  

GKFF and related entities have always been benevolent and I have no reason to doubt their good intentions here.  Odds are the foundation, entity, or person in charge does a great job and the park is an overwhelming success in spite of minor complaints (e.g. from dog walkers, cyclists, open carry people. I'm just curious who owns what, who leases what, what actual obligations are, and how it all works.  
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 07:59:07 am by cannon_fodder » Logged

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« Reply #1139 on: September 21, 2018, 08:51:02 am »

The renderings of the children's museum look OK/quality.  But, on first blush it looks like it could be a building at TU or ORU or on a medical campus.  Why wouldn't a children's museum have an iconic and playful/whimsical attitude in its exterior? I don't see much to appeal to a child's imagination - isn't that  the point?  Why not an iconic design? No offense intended because maybe it's what the owners wanted, but we don't get a lot of iconic designs done locally. Hard to figure. I'm not a fan of all kinds of wild stuff, but BIG would have been a good designer choice. Something more memorable than a slab rectangle box. KKT tornado bldg. type creativity. Or the Theater-At-Cincinnati design for the PAC that was rejected. Having said all that, I'm sure it will be a quality place and maybe I haven't seen all the pics.
 

I think it's a nice design with some elements which resemble Frank Lloyd Wright's prairie-style architecture. The Lodge seems to have quite a bit of that style/influence in it. I appreciate crazy eccentric design, especially for museums and a childrens' museum seems like a perfect opportunity for that, but this will likely be visible from neighborhoods so maybe they are being especially considerate of that, not being too ostentatious. The look is pretty complimentary of the other Gathering Place buildings.




Should they bump up the aesthetics to be a bit more of a draw for kids? Probably. But I'm all for the bulk of the money and style going inside as that will be more of what the kids experience and remember. I loved places like Harmon Science Center and the Omniplex back when it was a boring-looking building. I'm not sure the neighbors around there will want something like this in eye view:


I thought the previous rendition was pretty nice combo of unique and aesthetically pleasing building that would fit the look of the Gathering Place:

I'm wondering if cost and size vs footprint played a role in going with a more typical rectangular building shape.
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