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November 17, 2017, 03:20:29 pm
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Author Topic: (PROJECT) A Gathering Place For Tulsa  (Read 142197 times)
SXSW
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« Reply #840 on: January 21, 2016, 12:14:15 am »

This will be a really nice aspect of the overall project: a new 45,000 SF Children's Museum.  I'll be interested to see the design renderings.

http://m.tulsaworld.com/news/gatheringplace/tulsa-children-s-museum-hires-local-firm-to-design-new/article_2a2c305f-23d9-53fa-addf-3be892d232b2.html?mode=jqm

From another article:
The Gathering Place’s Four Seasons Garden will be named after the Richard A. Williford family. The garden, which will feature stacked sandstone, trees and ample seating, will connect the main part of the park with 31st Street and the future children’s museum, Stava said.

“It’s probably one of the most gorgeous walks in the park,” he said. “It’s going to be like nothing anyone has ever seen.”
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erfalf
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« Reply #841 on: January 21, 2016, 08:20:04 am »

Would this Children's Museum be a replacement for or in addition to the current facility in Owen Park?
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« Reply #842 on: January 21, 2016, 08:38:20 am »

Would this Children's Museum be a replacement for or in addition to the current facility in Owen Park?

I believe it is the intended permanent and purpose built location for the Children's Museum in Owen Park. This has been planned for some time.
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« Reply #843 on: January 22, 2016, 02:43:08 pm »

I believe it is the intended permanent and purpose built location for the Children's Museum in Owen Park. This has been planned for some time.

Cool. If you haven't been, the facility in Owen Park is pretty neat. Especially if you have kids that need to burn off a little steam.
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« Reply #844 on: October 16, 2016, 07:13:49 pm »

Does anyone know if there will be a path along Crow Creek included in this phase or is that a future project along with most of what's planned for south of 31st?  A river trail/Gathering Place connection to Brookside along the creek would be well-utilized.
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buffalodan
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« Reply #845 on: October 18, 2016, 09:26:37 am »

Does anyone know if there will be a path along Crow Creek included in this phase or is that a future project along with most of what's planned for south of 31st?  A river trail/Gathering Place connection to Brookside along the creek would be well-utilized.

I think a path from the park to peoria is in the works for a future phase. There will be sidewalks along 31st street and 33rd place is an okay road to walk down. I don't think a crow creek path would go further east than peoria however. I think the city was looking at a trail to connect to zink park, but that is very expensive/political R/W when there is a street just right there.
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« Reply #846 on: October 18, 2016, 10:56:07 am »

I think a path from the park to peoria is in the works for a future phase. There will be sidewalks along 31st street and 33rd place is an okay road to walk down. I don't think a crow creek path would go further east than peoria however. I think the city was looking at a trail to connect to zink park, but that is very expensive/political R/W when there is a street just right there.

Peoria would be fine especially if it could go under the bridge so you could connect to it easily on both sides.  I could see people visiting the park and children's museum then walking down the path to Brookside, or renting a bike.  Surely there will be a place to rent bikes in the park?  Even it's just one of those stations with another one on Peoria so you could drop off the bike if you weren't going back to the park/river.

The connection to Zink Park would be great to have eventually.  If you've never been down by the creek in Zink Park it's a pretty neat area with the short bluffs on the east side and all of the rock steps down to the water.  Extending it further north past 31st would be even more difficult since it runs through so much private property and Philbrook.
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« Reply #847 on: December 23, 2016, 10:32:23 pm »

Look who decided to take a page out of Tulsa's book. (same architect also)

Quote
Dallas is getting a $600 million urban park that's more than 11 times as large as Central Park

Dallas, Texas, is getting a lot greener.

The city is building a 10,000-acre nature district — nearly 12 times as large as Manhattan's Central Park — along the Trinity River. Featuring plenty of walkways, sports fields, trees, and other flora, the site will become the largest urban park in America.

In late October, Annette Simmons, the widow of the billionaire Harold Simmons, donated $50 million toward 285 acres of the ongoing project. Set to be complete by 2021 and costing $250 million, this portion will be called the Harold Simmons Park. Dallas Mayor Mike Rawlings said he expects other private donations to fund the rest of the Harold Simmons Park, according to Dallas News.

It will become part of the larger nature district, called the Trinity River Project, that began in the early 2000s. As of June 2015, the city had spent over $609 million to build trails, a bridge, a horse park, a golf course, and a community center in a 6,200-acre forested area. In the future, there are also plans to build shops, restaurants, housing, and offices near the river.

Check out what the Harold Simmons Park portion, designed by Michael Van Valkenburgh Associates, will look like:

http://www.businessinsider.com/dallas-trinity-river-park-project-2016-12/#visitors-will-be-able-to-peer-out-on-a-pedestrian-overpass-as-seen-below-a-few-roads-will-also-run-through-the-park-3
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TurismoDreamin
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« Reply #848 on: December 29, 2016, 04:37:33 pm »

So I was driving along Riverside the other night between 41st and 36th street. The street has been updated with a fresh concrete surface and new LED lighting. The problem is that in this small half mile stretch, the new lighting had so much spill that it illuminated well into the surrounding neighborhoods. I thought there were new standards in place to prevent spill like this.

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« Reply #849 on: December 29, 2016, 11:09:35 pm »

So I was driving along Riverside the other night between 41st and 36th street. The street has been updated with a fresh concrete surface and new LED lighting. The problem is that in this small half mile stretch, the new lighting had so much spill that it illuminated well into the surrounding neighborhoods. I thought there were new standards in place to prevent spill like this.

Well there are:

http://www.tmapc.org/Documents/TulsaZoningCodeAdopted110515.pdf

Section 65.090-B (General Standards) says

Light sources must be concealed or shielded with cutoffs so that no more than 2.5% of the light emitted directly from the lamp or indirectly from the fixture is projected at an angle of more than 90 degrees above nadir and no more than 10% of the light emitted directly from the lamp or indirectly from the fixture is projected at an angle of more than 80 degrees above nadir.

Light trespass along the lot line of the subject property may not exceed 0.5 foot candles when abutting an agricultural or residential zoning district and may not exceed 3.0 foot candles when abutting any other zoning district or public right of way. Maximum illumination levels are measured 3 feet above grade or from the top of any opaque screening fence or wall along the property line.



The first paragraph requires what was known in the lighting industry as "Cutoff"

which is much more lax than the "Full-Cutoff" in the illustration to its left.  The later is generally considered the most glare-free.

The second paragraph has been used by municipalities for decades to mop-up the excess left by the first paragraph; i.e., non-conforming, malfunctioning or improperly installed lighting that creates a nuisance or safety hazard.


Oh, one thing:  Section 65.090 -A (2) says city streetlighting is exempt from all that.
I argued in my peer review that the city should set the example and apply the regulations to new and upgraded street lighting, but that was not among the recommendations the council went with.

That this would be going on at a fragile ecosystem like the river is just shameful, and completely avoidable given better lighting design.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 11:30:13 pm by patric » Logged

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« Reply #850 on: December 31, 2016, 12:04:50 am »

I drove thru the area tonight, and I can hardly think of the words to describe how bad that lighting is.  Its far beyond overkill, and there's no way the city is going to keep it like that.

The first step would be to halt the expansion of those lights further down Riverside Drive until the city can review more sane options.
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« Reply #851 on: January 03, 2017, 08:48:26 am »

What causes these decisions?

Does it cost more to do it "right?"  Is there a (wrong) idea that more light is always better, so flood the neighborhood?  Does anyone actually want to be able to play Frisbee 24/7?
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« Reply #852 on: January 03, 2017, 09:34:55 am »

They also seem to stay on during the day...

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patric
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« Reply #853 on: January 03, 2017, 12:47:30 pm »

What causes these decisions?

Does it cost more to do it "right?"  Is there a (wrong) idea that more light is always better, so flood the neighborhood?  Does anyone actually want to be able to play Frisbee 24/7?

At this point im very concerned about the rest of the lighting plan for the park.  If its as bad as this, we will be spending a lot of money and time correcting it later if we arent able to correct it now.

Does it cost more to do it right? 
One big draw to LED lighting is you get more bang for the buck (Lumens per Watt) than older technology it replaces, so you could light a street to the same levels for a fraction of the cost of what you used to. 
Some have twisted that to mean you can spend the same amount of money and get brighter lights instead.  That would be fine if you really had a need for the brighter lights -- but obviously in this case we didnt -- so the only winner was the vendor, not the people.

Im going to get out the tripod and light meter and come up with some photos and some solid numbers, but basically any reasonable person can figure this out with their naked eye. 
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« Reply #854 on: January 03, 2017, 01:24:08 pm »

any reasonable person

Those are in short supply

(speaking of cutoffs... can someone resize @TurismoDreamin's image or add dimensions to his [img] tag?)
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