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October 21, 2018, 11:42:56 am
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Author Topic: (PROJECT) A Gathering Place For Tulsa  (Read 221165 times)
TulsaBeMore
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« Reply #1140 on: September 21, 2018, 09:28:48 am »

The museum will sit along Riverside. Majority of houses are a football field or two to the east. The river is west. Agree w/ you the initial rendering was much better. Cost may have played a role. Have to say the new design looks like a medical building.  Should excite the senses inside and out. Check out Cesar Pelli's Connecticut Science Center images. Doesn't have to be outrageous to be iconic. Ultimately anything will do. I hope it somehow incorporates facing the river  in its architectural
  programming. Lost opportunity otherwise. There doesn't appear to be any relationship to the river...like if they put a standard QuikTrip there. Looks like it reflects park better than water. Maybe renderings don't do it justice.
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patric
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« Reply #1141 on: September 21, 2018, 09:37:34 am »

I think it's a nice design with some elements which resemble Frank Lloyd Wright's prairie-style architecture. The Lodge seems to have quite a bit of that style/influence in it. I appreciate crazy eccentric design, especially for museums and a childrens' museum seems like a perfect opportunity for that, but this will likely be visible from neighborhoods so maybe they are being especially considerate of that, not being too ostentatious. The look is pretty complimentary of the other Gathering Place buildings.



I would drop the LED video screens on the exterior walls, considering the building's location.
That should have been a no-brainer (and it wouldnt have been code anyway).
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« Reply #1142 on: September 21, 2018, 10:58:45 am »

I would drop the LED video screens on the exterior walls, considering the building's location.
That should have been a no-brainer (and it wouldnt have been code anyway).

Haven't you heard? You've got to put GIANT LED VIDEO SCREENS on the outside of any rendering to show how cutting edge and high-tech it is! That's how the board members know they're getting only the very best.
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« Reply #1143 on: September 21, 2018, 11:05:45 am »

The museum will sit along Riverside. Majority of houses are a football field or two to the east. The river is west. Agree w/ you the initial rendering was much better. Cost may have played a role. Have to say the new design looks like a medical building.  Should excite the senses inside and out. Check out Cesar Pelli's Connecticut Science Center images. Doesn't have to be outrageous to be iconic. Ultimately anything will do. I hope it somehow incorporates facing the river  in its architectural
  programming. Lost opportunity otherwise. There doesn't appear to be any relationship to the river...like if they put a standard QuikTrip there. Looks like it reflects park better than water. Maybe renderings don't do it justice.

I'm not a fan of the Connecticut Science Center and wouldn't like it if something resembling that was put in the Gathering Place (and something that tall would be very visible from neighborhood). I strongly prefer the design they chose over some chopped-up looking office-building-reimaginedTM. I wish they could've made that original one work because it seemed like the best fit, would've been almost seemless coming from the Gathering Place 4-seasons garden on to that. 
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« Reply #1144 on: September 21, 2018, 03:09:25 pm »

The TW added a map showing the site at 33rd Place & Riverside.  Is that correct or is it actually 33rd Street?  I didn't realize they owned the properties along 33rd Place.  Definitely a deviation from their previous plan and will be interesting to see what they end up doing with the rest of the 30 acres around Crow Creek.  The area south of the creek has never been a part of Phase 2 in the plans they have released.



Though a quote from the article mentions the site could change..

Quote
Thursday’s unveiling culminated a process that has taken architects through three designs and as many locations, said Sarah Gould, an owner at KKT. The final site still could shift slightly north, she said.

“It went from a building in a park to a building integrated with a park setting,” Gould said. “Now it’s close to the street, so it’s much more urban and kind of creates a boundary to the park edge.”

« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 04:14:37 pm by SXSW » Logged

 
TulsaBeMore
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« Reply #1145 on: September 21, 2018, 08:15:05 pm »

Haven't you heard? You've got to put GIANT LED VIDEO SCREENS on the outside of any rendering to show how cutting edge and high-tech it is! That's how the board members know they're getting only the very best.
I'm not a fan of the Connecticut Science Center and wouldn't like it if something resembling that was put in the Gathering Place (and something that tall would be very visible from neighborhood). I strongly prefer the design they chose over some chopped-up looking office-building-reimaginedTM. I wish they could've made that original one work because it seemed like the best fit, would've been almost seemless coming from the Gathering Place 4-seasons garden on to that. 

Respect your opinion. Again, the design is OK. Sort of professional medical building or similar. Fairly unimaginative IMO for a facility with purpose to spark imagination. It may just be flat renderings to me. Also some relationship to water---a partial wavy facade or something.  I'm fairly traditional in taste, but most everything new in Tulsa looks like everything else in Generic City USA. Very little character added last 20-30 years. Always think that when getting back from a vacation. The design they picked for the lot next to PAC looks like it was bought from a fabric pattern store. Been done everywhere 30,000 times. It will be what it will be. And it will be OK. BOK Center is iconic, Williams/BOK Tower, downtown art deco & Boston Ave. Meth. Church, Pavilion, IPE Building,etc.  Like BOK Center, Williams Tower, IPE Building, Gathering Place ---- lead, don't follow.
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« Reply #1146 on: September 23, 2018, 07:12:31 pm »

Anyone know when they plan to finish the work along the river bank and take down the fences along the new trail next to GP?  I know there is a lot more work to do along the river by the bridge so it makes sense to keep them up there.
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« Reply #1147 on: September 27, 2018, 11:23:30 am »

Parking seems to be the biggest issue, the homes in the area expected their  value to increase but with all the traffic and people home values may not go up as first thought not many home buyers want to live in traffic packed areas, so they answer by restricting parking on side streets thus making the parking issue worse. Another thing that surprised me is they rebuilt Riverside with only 4 lanes, when they should of rebuilt Riverside drive with 6 lanes since sooner or latter Riverside Drive would have to be widened and those Riverside tunnels at the Gathering Place  will have to torn down and rebuilt. Poor planning for the future traffic patterns. The Gathering Place seems to be more or less just a playground for kids there is not much for adults in the park, many items in the park can be used by only one child at a time. The money may have been better spent by improving current parks and extending the trail system but I guess the money had to be spent on that one single park.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 11:25:43 am by sauerkraut » Logged

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« Reply #1148 on: September 27, 2018, 11:30:42 am »

Anyone know when they plan to finish the work along the river bank and take down the fences along the new trail next to GP?  I know there is a lot more work to do along the river by the bridge so it makes sense to keep them up there.
I think that is going to be in phase 2, along with a new Children's Museum. I wish they would of kept the old trail river crossing bridge instead of fencing it off and closing it down and spending more  money to re-build it. I'm surprised the park does not open till 9:am, I wonder if  they will charge an admittance fee to the Gathering Place in the future for upkeep or whatever. I heard it said on another forum  that with all the police & private security there the Gathering Place is like a prison- it's overkill.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 11:35:35 am by sauerkraut » Logged

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« Reply #1149 on: September 27, 2018, 02:04:27 pm »

They designate emergency call box stations. Similar to this
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DU_XAijWAAEju-K.jpg

They're bunched together about 50' apart, and no obvious pull station, so not it.  Maybe equipment indicators?
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« Reply #1150 on: September 27, 2018, 02:18:31 pm »

Parking seems to be the biggest issue, the homes in the area expected their  value to increase but with all the traffic and people home values may not go up as first thought not many home buyers want to live in traffic packed areas, so they answer by restricting parking on side streets thus making the parking issue worse. Another thing that surprised me is they rebuilt Riverside with only 4 lanes, when they should of rebuilt Riverside drive with 6 lanes since sooner or latter Riverside Drive would have to be widened and those Riverside tunnels at the Gathering Place  will have to torn down and rebuilt. Poor planning for the future traffic patterns.

Many moons ago there were plans to 6 or 8-lane Riverside for freeway-style traffic, but that was when the river was regarded as an open sewer to race by as fast as possible, and not as the pedestrian-heavy destination its gradually becoming.  As far as the neighbors, the city added insult to injury with the no-tolerance parking blitz as residents were being ticketed at their homes.  If that's how they plan to pay for all the security it isnt going to be sustainable.
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« Reply #1151 on: September 27, 2018, 02:19:30 pm »

I think that is going to be in phase 2, along with a new Children's Museum. I wish they would of kept the old trail river crossing bridge instead of fencing it off and closing it down and spending more  money to re-build it. I'm surprised the park does not open till 9:am, I wonder if  they will charge an admittance fee to the Gathering Place in the future for upkeep or whatever. I heard it said on another forum  that with all the police & private security there the Gathering Place is like a prison- it's overkill.

1.  The current bridge is structurally-deficient and has to be replaced (so they say)
2.  There is a massive endowment included by GKFF for security and upkeep
3.  There has been a larger security presence due to the crowds, as the new wears off it will subside and improve the parking and traffic situations in surrounding neighborhoods
4.  To answer your question about why they didn't widen Riverside, well it's not an expressway and doesn't need to be even more of a barrier between neighborhoods and RiverParks
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« Reply #1152 on: September 27, 2018, 03:06:40 pm »

The Gathering Place seems to be more or less just a playground for kids there is not much for adults in the park, many items in the park can be used by only one child at a time. The money may have been better spent by improving current parks and extending the trail system but I guess the money had to be spent on that one single park.


You're one of those naysayers, huh? The park is incredible. It is substantially nicer and on a larger scale than any city/urban park I've ever been to and we have gone out of our way to visit those kinds of parks in major cities we have visited around the US recently (including SF, LA, NYC, Dallas, Austin, Miami, etc - places like Chelsea Highline, Central Park, Klyde Warren).

Parking seems to be the biggest issue, the homes in the area expected their  value to increase but with all the traffic and people home values may not go up as first thought not many home buyers want to live in traffic packed areas, so they answer by restricting parking on side streets thus making the parking issue worse.

All of those cities I listed have some great parks but nothing really comparable the Gathering Place (Some do have natural beauty advantages such as ocean beaches or urban/city views that can't be replicated, but the parks/amenities themselves don't compare). And almost all of those urban parks have parking limitations. That's part of life when you have something awesome in an area with only so much parking, especially when parking and admission is free, and still incomplete as more parking will be added in Phase 2.

The property values around the Gathering Place have already increased substantially since the park was announced, and the values have increased far more than anywhere else in the Tulsa area. Homes that were ~$250k before it was announced are now well over $500k-$650k+. Where they go next, no one knows but I know that the high prices around there seemed a lot more tempting after I experienced the park for the first time. I'm guessing they'll keep going up faster than other parts, especially as traffic settles.

Another thing that surprised me is they rebuilt Riverside with only 4 lanes, when they should of rebuilt Riverside drive with 6 lanes since sooner or latter Riverside Drive would have to be widened and those Riverside tunnels at the Gathering Place  will have to torn down and rebuilt. Poor planning for the future traffic patterns.


I am glad they are treating Riverside as it should be: more of a parkway than a highway. 4 lanes and the reduced speed limit are appropriate. No, they will not be tearing down the tunnels to make it 6 lanes any time soon (not intentionally in the next 5 decades, anyways). That is a ridiculous thought.


The Gathering Place seems to be more or less just a playground for kids there is not much for adults in the park, many items in the park can be used by only one child at a time. The money may have been better spent by improving current parks and extending the trail system but I guess the money had to be spent on that one single park.

Sure lots of things there are for kids but numerous things are for both (adults can enjoy the towers and many of the things *more* for kids such as swings, merry-go-round, zip-line, etc). There is boating to come, concerts, plenty of sitting/lounge areas, the coffee shop, enjoy everything in the sensory garden, restaurants/cafes yet to get in full swing, the lodge and its view... Plenty for adults to do! Adults can also play basketball and bicycle and in general just enjoy the awe and newness of the place. Sure the kids area is incredible full of way more than any other area, but that's a great thing that will bring in more families to gather there and treasure being in Tulsa, which is a big part of the goal.
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« Reply #1153 on: September 27, 2018, 03:11:20 pm »

I think that is going to be in phase 2, along with a new Children's Museum. I wish they would of kept the old trail river crossing bridge instead of fencing it off and closing it down and spending more  money to re-build it. I'm surprised the park does not open till 9:am, I wonder if  they will charge an admittance fee to the Gathering Place in the future for upkeep or whatever. I heard it said on another forum  that with all the police & private security there the Gathering Place is like a prison- it's overkill.

There's no way to save the old pedestrian bridge/railroad. It's demolish it or replace it. A shame but fixing is not an option.

They will never charge admission and have an endowment for that.

Have you ever been to a prison? The security is nothing like that. I feel completely free to enjoy the park while I'm there. I've been a few times and had no run-ins or issues with anyone. Follow the rules and don't be hindrance and there's no issues. Lucky to even have such a park so happy to follow their easy rules.

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« Reply #1154 on: September 27, 2018, 03:43:39 pm »

They're bunched together about 50' apart, and no obvious pull station, so not it.  Maybe equipment indicators?

That may be what they signify. The emergency call box was my first thought because those are becoming used quite a bit. The only other thing I can think of that is used by municipalities and marked blue is fire hydrants and potable water, don't remember if I saw them when I was in Tulsa last, but in residential areas there are those reflective lane markers in the street and they are blue and indicated the location of a hydrant.
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