2/17 Pics of Brady

[Weatherdemon]

Not great but gives you a good idea of progress.

Hotel:


Bridge:



The rest:

[carltonplace]

Crazy what a TIF and a ballpark can do.

[DowntownDan]

That is the view from my office as well.  Love it.  I watched the ballpark go up and now to see all of this activity is exciting.  I can't wait to take a walk at lunch to the Brady Park, eat a sandwich from home, and enjoy the outdoors. 

[Conan71]

Crazy what a TIF and a ballpark can do.

B...b...bu...but that's corporate welfare!!!

[Jeff P]

Obligatory:

"BOK Center will be a wasteland after a few years."

"The only thing that will be there will be tractor pulls."

"Vision 2025 won't do anything."

 

[DTowner]

Obligatory:

"BOK Center will be a wasteland after a few years."

"The only thing that will be there will be tractor pulls."

"Vision 2025 won't do anything."

 

Fail, fail, fail.  Perhaps if I say it enough it will come true.

I took a long walk through the Brady District yesterday.  For a February Sunday, there were a surprisingly large number of cars around, folks eating brunch/lunch at the restaurants, etc.  It was also interesting to see a lot of cars just driving around, stopping every so often with the people pointing at this or that new buildling going up.  As fantastic as all the new buildings are going to be, I think Tulsa's renewed sense of civic pride may be even more important.  In the last 10-15 years, it seems like Tulsans were always apologizing about Tulsa to outsiders - our city government was disfunctional, our roads crumbling, our large companies going under or moving elsewhere, etc.  It is hard to drive through downtown today and not get excited about Tulsa's potential and its future even though our city government is not always functional, our streets need more work and we are still fighting to save some of our large employers.

[jacobi]

I took a long walk through the Brady District yesterday.  For a February Sunday, there were a surprisingly large number of cars around, folks eating brunch/lunch at the restaurants, etc.  It was also interesting to see a lot of cars just driving around, stopping every so often with the people pointing at this or that new buildling going up.  As fantastic as all the new buildings are going to be, I think Tulsa's renewed sense of civic pride may be even more important.  In the last 10-15 years, it seems like Tulsans were always apologizing about Tulsa to outsiders - our city government was disfunctional, our roads crumbling, our large companies going under or moving elsewhere, etc.  It is hard to drive through downtown today and not get excited about Tulsa's potential and its future even though our city government is not always functional, our streets need more work and we are still fighting to save some of our large employers.

Agreed.  Even alot of teenagers (who hate everything) like it here.  Now if only we could give them a lifestyle and career choice that they would stick around for.

[Conan71]

Obligatory:

"BOK Center will be a wasteland after a few years."

"The only thing that will be there will be tractor pulls."

"Vision 2025 won't do anything."

 

Let's just re-name it the "Fail Boat".

[Hoss]

Let's just re-name it the "Fail Boat".

FailMotherShip.  Hmm...that right there might be a new hash-tag...

[Teatownclown]

Boy's, especially Jeffie, I have always touted the Brady's potential to be uniquely attractive. Not so the white elephant. Vision 2025 remains a tax and spend  development whereby the jury will remainout until 2030.

[Jeff P]

Boy's, especially Jeffie, I have always touted the Brady's potential to be uniquely attractive. Not so the white elephant. Vision 2025 remains a tax and spend  development whereby the jury will remainout until 2030.

OK.

We have a sizable amount of evidence building for said jury.

Like hundreds of millions of dollars in tax revenues for the city, county and state and hundreds of millions of dollars in private investment that was spurred by Vision 2025.

That doesn't even count numerous other intangible benefits that have value, like creative and vibrant young people staying in town instead of leaving en mass, civic pride, etc.

And do you think any of this would be happening in Brady without the Vision 2025 investment as a catalyst?

[erfalf]

OK.

We have a sizable amount of evidence building for said jury.

Like hundreds of millions of dollars in tax revenues for the city, county and state and hundreds of millions of dollars in private investment that was spurred by Vision 2025.

That doesn't even count numerous other intangible benefits that have value, like creative and vibrant young people staying in town instead of leaving en mass, civic pride, etc.

And do you think any of this would be happening in Brady without the Vision 2025 investment as a catalyst?

I understand funding was included in 2025 for additional projects, but I would dare to say that many of the projects wouldn't have happened without a direct investment in them. Tulsa is still a long way off from having many non-subsidized building going on downtown. Lets just go through the list on the Chamber's Downtown site.

1. Hardesty Arts Center - Private, this is a great project in my opinion as well.
2. Brady Flats - I believe they got city funding, correct me if I'm wrong please.
3. Enterprise Building - Dead as far as I can tell.
4. Fairfield Inn & Suites - I really don't have any idea of the funding on this one.
5. Greenarch - City funding, not moving for some reason, even though it is directly across the street from the ballpark which was supposed to spur this exact type of development.
6. Channel 6 - Private I believe
7. Mathew's Warehouse - I guess this is seperate from Hardesty although isn't it kind of the same thing?
8. Metro @ Brady - Lots of city funding for only 75 units and no commercial. INSANE!
9. Old City Hall/Aloft - Not even gonna comment. While I think a conversion to an ALOFT is really cool.
10. One Place - Don't know, but I think it is private. Or was this TDA owned land? I don't remember.
11. The Riverbend Gardens - Is this even happening, I have never heard anything about it.
12. Robinson Packer Lofts - Again thank you Mr. Kaiser
13. Brady Streetscaping - Public
14. Brady Park - Kaiser
15. City Parking Garage - Public
16. Oklahoma Pop Museum - Mostly Public
17. First Presbyterian Church - Private
18. Boulder Avenue Bridge - Public
19. Oklahoma Pop Museum - Does anyone at the chamber proof these things?

The map includes the following as well
1. ARCO/Downtown 119 - Dead

So in summary we have the Kaiser projects in Brady which are awesome, KOTV, OnePlace, Fairfield, and a Church expansion all done privately. The rest are either dead or heavily reliant on public funds. I would dare to say the jury is still out on 2025. Just because downtown sees development does not necessarily mean that V2025 was the cause. Although that is what the politicians will assume. I believe it is due more to a rekindled desire for people to live/be in urban areas. My opinion only.

[DTowner]

OK.

We have a sizable amount of evidence building for said jury.

Like hundreds of millions of dollars in tax revenues for the city, county and state and hundreds of millions of dollars in private investment that was spurred by Vision 2025.

That doesn't even count numerous other intangible benefits that have value, like creative and vibrant young people staying in town instead of leaving en mass, civic pride, etc.

And do you think any of this would be happening in Brady without the Vision 2025 investment as a catalyst?

The doom and gloomers will never be convinced and as each prediction of failure is proven wrong they simpy create new grounds for opposing.  Now it's that all the development downtown would have happend without the BOK Center and OneOk Field.  It's the perfect revisionist history position because it cannot be absolutely proven wrong.

[carltonplace]

I understand funding was included in 2025 for additional projects, but I would dare to say that many of the projects wouldn't have happened without a direct investment in them. Tulsa is still a long way off from having many non-subsidized building going on downtown. Lets just go through the list on the Chamber's Downtown site.

1. Hardesty Arts Center - Private, this is a great project in my opinion as well.
2. Brady Flats - I believe they got city funding, correct me if I'm wrong please.
3. Enterprise Building - Dead as far as I can tell.
4. Fairfield Inn & Suites - I really don't have any idea of the funding on this one.
5. Greenarch - City funding, not moving for some reason, even though it is directly across the street from the ballpark which was supposed to spur this exact type of development.
6. Channel 6 - Private I believe
7. Mathew's Warehouse - I guess this is seperate from Hardesty although isn't it kind of the same thing?
8. Metro @ Brady - Lots of city funding for only 75 units and no commercial. INSANE!
9. Old City Hall/Aloft - Not even gonna comment. While I think a conversion to an ALOFT is really cool.
10. One Place - Don't know, but I think it is private. Or was this TDA owned land? I don't remember.
11. The Riverbend Gardens - Is this even happening, I have never heard anything about it.
12. Robinson Packer Lofts - Again thank you Mr. Kaiser
13. Brady Streetscaping - Public
14. Brady Park - Kaiser
15. City Parking Garage - Public
16. Oklahoma Pop Museum - Mostly Public
17. First Presbyterian Church - Private
18. Boulder Avenue Bridge - Public
19. Oklahoma Pop Museum - Does anyone at the chamber proof these things?

The map includes the following as well
1. ARCO/Downtown 119 - Dead

So in summary we have the Kaiser projects in Brady which are awesome, KOTV, OnePlace, Fairfield, and a Church expansion all done privately. The rest are either dead or heavily reliant on public funds. I would dare to say the jury is still out on 2025. Just because downtown sees development does not necessarily mean that V2025 was the cause. Although that is what the politicians will assume. I believe it is due more to a rekindled desire for people to live/be in urban areas. My opinion only.

You know that all of the public funds for housing have to be paid back right? These are revolving funds that can be allocated over and over again ad infinitum. The One place property was purchased by the developer from the TDA at fair market value, which is a cash flow positive transaction.

[Hoss]

You know that all of the public funds for housing have to be paid back right? These are revolving funds that can be allocated over and over again ad infinitum. The One place property was purchased by the developer from the TDA at fair market value, which is a cash flow positive transaction.

Isn't erfalf a resident of Bartlesville?  Does this person go to downtown Tulsa on a regular basis for entertainment or other things?  I'd reserve judgement on this poster's opinion of our downtown pending disclosure of that.

I'm not trying to be an a$$ about it; but if this person has really no skin in the game aside from viewing from afar it would be akin to me judging the CBD of Bartlesville while I live here in Tulsa.