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November 19, 2017, 04:12:03 am
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Author Topic: Keystone XL Pipeline  (Read 22830 times)
cannon_fodder
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« Reply #240 on: October 19, 2016, 07:35:58 am »

Get off private property and then this scary. Until then. If these people were standing in my office "peacefully protesting" they still get arrested.

Yep. Here is the basic process:

Pipeline is planned.
Pipeline company sends out land men to acquire access rights.
Pipeline company requests state aid in eminent domain if there are holdouts (same as power companies, etc.)
Pipeline is proposed to state regulators, public comment, and approved.
Pipeline is proposed to Federal regulators (FERC and DOT), public comment, and approved.
Pipeline plans are proposed to the US Corps of Engineers, public comment,  and is approved.
Pipelines plans are proposed to the BLM, public comment, and is approved.
Overall, the pipeline goes through five levels of government regulation, and is approved.
Construction contracts are put for bid.
Construction timeline is published.
Construction begins at various locations.
Construction reaches this point...

WHAT A PIPELINE!  NO ONE TOLD US ANYTHING, THIS IS BS!!!!!!!1!1!1!! PROTEST!

It isn't tribal land.

By and large, it isn't the land owners protesting.

The land has never been claimed as sacred, or a burial site, or whatever else... until after all the above happened, and after the protests got attention. And these aren't burial sites, the claim is that a rock here or there represents a place where a tribal member may have been set upon a scaffold to return to the earth. Which no one knew about or held sacred until now. (happy to be corrected on tribal customs, I have to take this info from third parties)

This pipeline poses less of a hazard than the trains full of oil going by every day.

This pipeline isn't racist... most of the pipeline will go across the farmland of rural white farmers in Iowa.

The pipeline representatives tried to meet with the tribe, and were rejected because this isn't on tribal land (unless you are arguing, "it's all tribal land," which isn't the argument we are having right now).

The pipeline follows other pipelines and power line rights of way. This isn't virgin land. Its already been constructed upon.

If we are throwing out slanted website, you can find them going the other way too:
http://www.redstate.com/setonmotley/2016/10/05/much-dishonesty-way-late-dakota-access-pipeline/


So what? Go out there and protest. Get your 1st Amendment on! Unfortunately, the protesters have been knocking down fences and illegally entering sites. They have assaulted workers  (remember when peaceful protesters were attacked by dogs? Yeah, they had knocked down a fence and approached construction workers on private property - one side said the protesters then attacked, the other said the police attacked first). They have torched construction equipment - millions of dollars of construction equipment. 

Protesting is all well and good. Ineffective at this stage. But have at it. However, when you engage in behavior designed to provoke a response, you can't be surprised when you get the response you are looking for.  Breaking down fences is going to get a police response. Torching equipment is going to get a police response. Otherwise, the authorities are letting the protesters be. Their illegal camp on federal land remains - because their right to peacefully assemble and protest is more important. This isn't Selma. Here, it seems the protesters only face hostility when they cross the line.


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erfalf
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« Reply #241 on: October 19, 2016, 07:42:28 am »

Yep. Here is the basic process:

Pipeline is planned.
Pipeline company sends out land men to acquire access rights.
Pipeline company requests state aid in eminent domain if there are holdouts (same as power companies, etc.)
Pipeline is proposed to state regulators, public comment, and approved.
Pipeline is proposed to Federal regulators (FERC and DOT), public comment, and approved.
Pipeline plans are proposed to the US Corps of Engineers, public comment,  and is approved.
Pipelines plans are proposed to the BLM, public comment, and is approved.
Overall, the pipeline goes through five levels of government regulation, and is approved.
Construction contracts are put for bid.
Construction timeline is published.
Construction begins at various locations.
Construction reaches this point...

WHAT A PIPELINE!  NO ONE TOLD US ANYTHING, THIS IS BS!!!!!!!1!1!1!! PROTEST!

It isn't tribal land.

By and large, it isn't the land owners protesting.

The land has never been claimed as sacred, or a burial site, or whatever else... until after all the above happened, and after the protests got attention. And these aren't burial sites, the claim is that a rock here or there represents a place where a tribal member may have been set upon a scaffold to return to the earth. Which no one knew about or held sacred until now. (happy to be corrected on tribal customs, I have to take this info from third parties)

This pipeline poses less of a hazard than the trains full of oil going by every day.

This pipeline isn't racist... most of the pipeline will go across the farmland of rural white farmers in Iowa.

The pipeline representatives tried to meet with the tribe, and were rejected because this isn't on tribal land (unless you are arguing, "it's all tribal land," which isn't the argument we are having right now).

The pipeline follows other pipelines and power line rights of way. This isn't virgin land. Its already been constructed upon.

If we are throwing out slanted website, you can find them going the other way too:
http://www.redstate.com/setonmotley/2016/10/05/much-dishonesty-way-late-dakota-access-pipeline/


So what? Go out there and protest. Get your 1st Amendment on! Unfortunately, the protesters have been knocking down fences and illegally entering sites. They have assaulted workers  (remember when peaceful protesters were attacked by dogs? Yeah, they had knocked down a fence and approached construction workers on private property - one side said the protesters then attacked, the other said the police attacked first). They have torched construction equipment - millions of dollars of construction equipment. 

Protesting is all well and good. Ineffective at this stage. But have at it. However, when you engage in behavior designed to provoke a response, you can't be surprised when you get the response you are looking for.  Breaking down fences is going to get a police response. Torching equipment is going to get a police response. Otherwise, the authorities are letting the protesters be. Their illegal camp on federal land remains - because their right to peacefully assemble and protest is more important. This isn't Selma. Here, it seems the protesters only face hostility when they cross the line.




Absolutely right. The missed the boat all together. Lemmings (Hollywood) are easy to herd though.
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Conan71
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« Reply #242 on: October 19, 2016, 08:51:57 am »

  one side said the protesters then attacked, the other said the police attacked first).

Sorry, complete squirrel hi-jack.  It made me wonder if it was Han or Greedo that shot first.
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #243 on: October 19, 2016, 08:55:49 am »

Sorry, complete squirrel hi-jack.  It made me wonder if it was Han or Greedo that shot first.

Frikken Han! Guido never even shot in the original. I can't believe they changed that scene.

Stupid George Lucas, choosing hundreds of millions of dollars and multi-generational fame over integrity!
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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #244 on: October 19, 2016, 09:03:19 am »

Frikken Han! Guido never even shot in the original. I can't believe they changed that scene.

Stupid George Lucas, choosing hundreds of millions of dollars and multi-generational fame over integrity!

Same reason he changed the ghost of Anakin at the end of Return of the Jedi so it would match with the third prequel.
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patric
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« Reply #245 on: October 19, 2016, 09:40:21 am »

Im on the fence with regard to the protestors, but a prosecutor bullying reporters is unacceptable, and goes against the grain of basic American principles.

From what I read, the tribe spent years going thru CF's list, and no one really paid attention until a reporter reported blood spilled.
The reporter who covered the melee was charged with trespassing five days after her story ran.  When she came back to face the music, the trespassing charge wouldnt stick so the prosecutor decided to change it to "rioting" to scare other media outlets away.
Eventually cooler heads prevailed.

http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-goodman-north-dakota-20161017-snap-story.html
« Last Edit: October 19, 2016, 10:30:47 am by patric » Logged

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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #246 on: October 24, 2016, 09:36:36 am »

Get off private property and then this scary. Until then. If these people were standing in my office "peacefully protesting" they still get arrested.


Ticketed for misdemeanor trespass....


As always, there is more to the story.  Private property rights in the area ARE affected not just by the 'mineral rights' of some, and the surface ownership, but also by Federal law by way of Treaties, which are by definition in the US Constitution, Supreme Law of the Land.  So there are interested parties outside of an oil company and 'landowner' who have legal standing.  These protesters are interested parties on behalf of the tribes.  The question of "trespass" becomes fuzzier....not much of a case there.



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patric
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« Reply #247 on: October 24, 2016, 02:21:31 pm »


Ticketed for misdemeanor trespass....

As always, there is more to the story.  Private property rights in the area ARE affected not just by the 'mineral rights' of some, and the surface ownership, but also by Federal law by way of Treaties, which are by definition in the US Constitution, Supreme Law of the Land.  So there are interested parties outside of an oil company and 'landowner' who have legal standing.  These protesters are interested parties on behalf of the tribes.  The question of "trespass" becomes fuzzier....not much of a case there.


Sometimes a little bittersweet when a "protestor" is arrested for trespassing on property that belonged to their family for generations.   
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #248 on: October 24, 2016, 02:31:05 pm »

Sometimes a little bittersweet when a "protestor" is arrested for trespassing on property that belonged to their family for generations.   


Sick, twisted, immoral, thieving, cheating....these are words that describe it better...   And in this case the added classification of genocidal. 



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Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
patric
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« Reply #249 on: February 11, 2017, 01:26:08 pm »


Sick, twisted, immoral, thieving, cheating....these are words that describe it better...   



Another reporter arrested for "rioting" while covering pipeline protest

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-standing-rock-journalist-arrest-20170205-story.html
http://bismarcktribune.com/news/journalist-arrested-at-pipeline-protest/article_359eedb4-6f1f-5638-8e58-b287b6202caa.html
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patric
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« Reply #250 on: November 16, 2017, 05:52:00 pm »

Keystone pipeline spills 210,000 gallons of oil on eve of permitting decision for TransCanada

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/11/16/keystone-pipeline-spills-210000-gallons-of-oil-on-eve-of-key-permitting-decision
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guido911
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« Reply #251 on: November 16, 2017, 06:09:10 pm »


No new permits or anything until this problem gets addressed.
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swake
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« Reply #252 on: November 16, 2017, 06:40:17 pm »

No new permits or anything until this problem gets addressed.

Nothing new is getting built with current prices anyway.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #253 on: November 17, 2017, 08:59:05 am »

Nobody can possibly be surprised at this.  It was prophesied. 


Somehow I told you so just doesn't quite say it....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBgeCZW3upg

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“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
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