A grassroots organization focused on the intelligent and sustainable development, preservation and revitalization of Tulsa.
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 28, 2020, 05:03:09 am
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Tulsa metro population growth.  (Read 16597 times)
heironymouspasparagus
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 12725



« Reply #45 on: April 27, 2019, 08:42:50 am »

I was told that 30 years ago as Wal-Mart was really becoming such a dominant global retailer they began to require their vendors have reps live in the Bentonville area.  There was some reluctance as it was seen as sleepy and backwoods.  Finally, it was asked what would make younger professionals want to live in NWA?  It boiled down to quality of life assets and that is what they have done.

One thing we really miss about living in Tulsa is being only a couple of hours or so from the Bentonville area.  We loved the bike trails in the area- soft and paved and Crystal Bridges Museum is just stunning.  The livability and hip factor have gone up a great deal in 30 years and there are plenty of high paying jobs to make it even more attractive.

It is puzzling the amount of growth in NWA vs. Tulsa as Tulsa has had many of those quality of life assets for decades longer- we started our river trail system in the early 1970's.  We've had great museums for even longer, great area lakes, etc.  What are other reasons a company would pick NWA over Tulsa?  Or is all the growth related to activity with Wal-Mart, Hunt, and Tyson?


Couple of things - and I am not pointing these out to start an argument, just to show there is much more than liveability involved.  AR has a past reputation of being backwoods, "hicks from the sticks" kind of place.  Much like OK.  They have a tradition of Mike Huckabee type extremist BS, but they ALSO have the tradition of Bill Clinton.  BUT for decades they have NOT gone out of their way to actively promote and prove how backwards thinking they are (they aren't) like we still do.  Ex; haven't heard of them repeatedly passing known unconstitutional laws...month after month, year after year.

We still get to celebrate "0 days without a national embarrassment" events regularly.

I know and work with quite a few people in Fayetteville/Bentonville area, and while they are somewhat more conservative than I am on many issues - mostly social rather than fiscal (I am nowhere as liberal as some here try to paint me), they are not rabidly nor malignantly ignorant about it.   They are actively progressive about a LOT of quality of life things, because they realize that being progressive means, by definition, one makes progress.

IF we want to project a "quality of life" image, we must stop the continuous approach of getting our 'names' in the national news in a bad light.  It's simple really, but seemingly impossible for us to do.  Just look at what was elected governor last time...and his business dealings record.  It's a Louisiana style approach to presenting an outward face to the world.

Logged

"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
Conan71
Recovering Republican
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 29324



« Reply #46 on: April 27, 2019, 11:24:24 am »


Couple of things - and I am not pointing these out to start an argument, just to show there is much more than liveability involved.  AR has a past reputation of being backwoods, "hicks from the sticks" kind of place.  Much like OK.  They have a tradition of Mike Huckabee type extremist BS, but they ALSO have the tradition of Bill Clinton.  BUT for decades they have NOT gone out of their way to actively promote and prove how backwards thinking they are (they aren't) like we still do.  Ex; haven't heard of them repeatedly passing known unconstitutional laws...month after month, year after year.

We still get to celebrate "0 days without a national embarrassment" events regularly.

I know and work with quite a few people in Fayetteville/Bentonville area, and while they are somewhat more conservative than I am on many issues - mostly social rather than fiscal (I am nowhere as liberal as some here try to paint me), they are not rabidly nor malignantly ignorant about it.   They are actively progressive about a LOT of quality of life things, because they realize that being progressive means, by definition, one makes progress.

IF we want to project a "quality of life" image, we must stop the continuous approach of getting our 'names' in the national news in a bad light.  It's simple really, but seemingly impossible for us to do.  Just look at what was elected governor last time...and his business dealings record.  It's a Louisiana style approach to presenting an outward face to the world.



I suspect there is some truth to the Oklahoma Legislature being somewhat of a negative factor when it comes to being able to promote Oklahoma to corporations and individuals who are put off by extreme conservatism nut jobs on the right.  Oklahoma could do a much better job of appearing moderate by electing moderates and avoiding rubber stamping uber-conservative legislation written by outside lobbying groups.

I can think back five years ago telling people it was ridiculous that we were pointing to Arkansas as being "progressive" when it came to being friendly to new breweries opening up and many other issues.  I never thought that day would come.  I'm curious if that progressivism is from younger grads who have settled in the area of NWA.
Logged

"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the firstĒ -Ronald Reagan
patric
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 7579


These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #47 on: April 28, 2019, 12:13:50 am »


Couple of things - and I am not pointing these out to start an argument, just to show there is much more than liveability involved.  AR has a past reputation of being backwoods, "hicks from the sticks" kind of place.  Much like OK.  They have a tradition of Mike Huckabee type extremist BS, but they ALSO have the tradition of Bill Clinton.  BUT for decades they have NOT gone out of their way to actively promote and prove how backwards thinking they are (they aren't) like we still do.  Ex; haven't heard of them repeatedly passing known unconstitutional laws...month after month, year after year.

We still get to celebrate "0 days without a national embarrassment" events regularly.


And we sure scare the hell out of people in Japan:
https://japantoday.com/category/world/police-3-children-shot-as-oklahoma-police-fire-at-suspect
Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
SXSW
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4222


WWW
« Reply #48 on: April 28, 2019, 10:44:10 am »

It is puzzling the amount of growth in NWA vs. Tulsa as Tulsa has had many of those quality of life assets for decades longer- we started our river trail system in the early 1970's.  We've had great museums for even longer, great area lakes, etc.  What are other reasons a company would pick NWA over Tulsa?  Or is all the growth related to activity with Wal-Mart, Hunt, and Tyson?

Thatís what I have wondered, itís not like these are Google and Amazon but rather a somewhat-antiquated big box retailer (their e-Commerce division is in the Bay Area), a chicken company and a long distance trucking company.  Tulsa has just as many F500 companies but they are all energy-related (Williams, ONEOK, NGL Energy Partners) and several F100 like QuikTrip, H&P, Nordam and BOKF.  Both metros have a higher-than-average amount of philanthropy and great museums though Tulsa has the better overall arts and music scene.  They have the University of Arkansas which is a big jobs engine and more hills than we do maybe that is the difference?  Arkansas is also not as reactionary conservative as Oklahoma but not by much and is not a particularly business friendly or highly educated state.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 10:53:31 am by SXSW » Logged

 
Oil Capital
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1201


WWW
« Reply #49 on: April 28, 2019, 04:14:10 pm »

Thatís what I have wondered, itís not like these are Google and Amazon but rather a somewhat-antiquated big box retailer (their e-Commerce division is in the Bay Area), a chicken company and a long distance trucking company.  Tulsa has just as many F500 companies but they are all energy-related (Williams, ONEOK, NGL Energy Partners) and several F100 like QuikTrip, H&P, Nordam and BOKF.  Both metros have a higher-than-average amount of philanthropy and great museums though Tulsa has the better overall arts and music scene.  They have the University of Arkansas which is a big jobs engine and more hills than we do maybe that is the difference?  Arkansas is also not as reactionary conservative as Oklahoma but not by much and is not a particularly business friendly or highly educated state.

Tulsa's Fortune 500 companies are at #223, #249 and #353 (total revenue $33 Billion), while NW Arkansas' are at #1, #80, and #395 (total revenue:  $$546 Billion).  WalMart alone has 15 times the revenue of all three of Tulsa's Fortune 500 companies combined.

I presume "F100" is the Forbes 100 list of largest privately-held companies?  H&P, Nordam and BOKF are not on the Forbes 100 list.  Only QuikTrip makes that cut.

It's almost impossible to overstate the scope of Wal Mart.  If you add up the total revenue of all of 5 of Tulsa's Fortune 1000 companies plus our entry on the Forbes 100 list, Wal Mart still has more than 13 times the total revenue of all six of Tulsa's largest companies.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2019, 04:52:36 pm by Oil Capital » Logged

 
TheArtist
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 6737



WWW
« Reply #50 on: April 28, 2019, 08:06:12 pm »

If I am reading my zeroes correctly.  BOK 2018 Revenue about 419 million.   Walmart 2018 Revenue about 500 Billion.   Having Walmart is like having 10 BOK's.   Plus again, all the companies from all over the US and the world that cater to Wal-Mart, you pretty much have to have a presence there in order to do business with them, and they want that because they know it helps the economy there.
Logged

"When you only have two pennies left in the world, buy a loaf of bread with one, and a lily with the other."-Chinese proverb. "Arts a staple. Like bread or wine or a warm coat in winter. Those who think it is a luxury have only a fragment of a mind. Mans spirit grows hungry for art in the same way h
heironymouspasparagus
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 12725



« Reply #51 on: April 29, 2019, 08:05:35 am »

I suspect there is some truth to the Oklahoma Legislature being somewhat of a negative factor when it comes to being able to promote Oklahoma to corporations and individuals who are put off by extreme conservatism nut jobs on the right.  Oklahoma could do a much better job of appearing moderate by electing moderates and avoiding rubber stamping uber-conservative legislation written by outside lobbying groups.

I can think back five years ago telling people it was ridiculous that we were pointing to Arkansas as being "progressive" when it came to being friendly to new breweries opening up and many other issues.  I never thought that day would come.  I'm curious if that progressivism is from younger grads who have settled in the area of NWA.


Of the dozen+ people I interact with regularly, only 2 are what could be considered youngsters...I am putting that age at about 35 to 40-ish,  or so.  Most are conservative in a very progressive way - they understand what is good for the people is good for the economy and the state overall.  Probably still to the right of me, but not very far.  Many of them understand the vileness that is Trump.  Sad that more don't.

I am almost reminded of Eisenhower philosophically.



Logged

"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
heironymouspasparagus
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 12725



« Reply #52 on: April 29, 2019, 08:09:27 am »



Isn't that just friggin' wonderful....not only do we come off as "that way" nationally, now we have gone international.!!

Geez...   I'm betting Hitachi won't be building any more plants in this state.  (The one they have in OKC is "de=rated" considerably from what it used to be...)

Logged

"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
Conan71
Recovering Republican
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 29324



« Reply #53 on: April 29, 2019, 02:13:27 pm »

I can't find anything delineating the total employment figures at Wax-Mart HQ.  They employ 2.3 million world-wide and I read they laid off about 1000 at HQ in the Bentonville area last year.  Anyone else have any ideas about their corporate HQ footprint?
Logged

"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the firstĒ -Ronald Reagan
DTowner
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1439


« Reply #54 on: April 29, 2019, 03:49:07 pm »

According to this article, the population grow has slowed somewhat the past couple of years, although still a solid 2% last year with the total population nearing 550,000.

https://talkbusiness.net/2019/04/northwest-arkansas-population-growth-softens-to-2-in-2018-area-dips-to-27th-fastest-growing-metro/

NW Arkansasís rapid growth is a pretty remarkable story, but I donít see many lessons in it that can help Tulsa.  We canít match the natural beauty or magically create the worldís largest retailer to juice our growth. Plus, so much of what we spend time talking about on here - urban development, higher density, mixed use, walkability, transit, etc. as way of attracting new comers - is pretty much the antithesis of what NW Ark is doing.  Outside of the older parts of Fayetteville, which is a nice college town, the rest of it is pretty much suburban style development scattered along an interstate highway that didnít exist a decade ago.
Logged
Oil Capital
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1201


WWW
« Reply #55 on: April 29, 2019, 03:53:58 pm »

I can't find anything delineating the total employment figures at Wax-Mart HQ.  They employ 2.3 million world-wide and I read they laid off about 1000 at HQ in the Bentonville area last year.  Anyone else have any ideas about their corporate HQ footprint?

From 2017:  Walmart will build a new headquarters in Bentonville, CEO Doug McMillon said today. The project is expected to accommodate 14,000-17,000 employees, who are now spread among 20 buildings in Bentonville, Arkansas Business reports.  https://arktimes.com/arkansas-blog/2017/09/15/walmart-plans-to-build-new-hq-in-bentonville
Logged

 
Conan71
Recovering Republican
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 29324



« Reply #56 on: April 29, 2019, 10:44:42 pm »

From 2017:  Walmart will build a new headquarters in Bentonville, CEO Doug McMillon said today. The project is expected to accommodate 14,000-17,000 employees, who are now spread among 20 buildings in Bentonville, Arkansas Business reports.  https://arktimes.com/arkansas-blog/2017/09/15/walmart-plans-to-build-new-hq-in-bentonville


So about double American Airlines' presence in Tulsa at it's peak.
Logged

"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the firstĒ -Ronald Reagan
Oil Capital
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1201


WWW
« Reply #57 on: April 30, 2019, 08:33:58 am »

So about double American Airlines' presence in Tulsa at it's peak.

Or about triple American Airlines' current presence in Tulsa.
Logged

 
heironymouspasparagus
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 12725



« Reply #58 on: April 30, 2019, 09:30:28 am »

So about double American Airlines' presence in Tulsa at it's peak.


Rockwell had about 4,000 through most of the 80's making B-1 bombers.  Down to 2,000 by 1989.  Gone not long after that.  Got to contribute some to that - helped make it look smaller.  Looked like a Cessna 180 coming at you at 2,500 mph!

Logged

"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
LeGenDz
Activist
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 91


WWW
« Reply #59 on: May 11, 2019, 01:04:12 am »

If I am reading my zeroes correctly.  BOK 2018 Revenue about 419 million.   Walmart 2018 Revenue about 500 Billion.   Having Walmart is like having 10 BOK's.   Plus again, all the companies from all over the US and the world that cater to Wal-Mart, you pretty much have to have a presence there in order to do business with them, and they want that because they know it helps the economy there.

419 "Million" vs 500 "Billlion" would be like having almost 1200 BOK's  Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked
Logged

 
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

 
  Hosted by TulsaConnect and Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
 

Mission

 

"TulsaNow's Mission is to help Tulsa become the most vibrant, diverse, sustainable and prosperous city of our size. We achieve this by focusing on the development of Tulsa's distinctive identity and economic growth around a dynamic, urban core, complemented by a constellation of livable, thriving communities."
more...

 

Contact

 

2210 S Main St.
Tulsa, OK 74114
(918) 409-2669
info@tulsanow.org