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September 21, 2018, 10:59:10 pm
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Author Topic: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana  (Read 127662 times)
DTowner
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« Reply #900 on: July 13, 2018, 09:18:15 am »

This seems like a classic case of regulatory capture.  The Health Board is dominated by and is beholden to an industry that overwhelmingly opposed SQ 788.  Thus, the effort by the health board to overturn the clear mandate of the voters is not surprising.

It is interesting that legislators of both parties are being so critical of the health board’s actions.  I think that is indicative that most politicians, whatever their personal position on the issue, clearly understand the voters will be angry by this attempt to undo the basic intent of SQ 788 and will seek revenge at the ballot box.  It’s too bad Fallin either lacks the good political instinct to understand that or simply doesn’t care as she heads out the door.

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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #901 on: July 13, 2018, 11:09:23 am »

This seems like a classic case of regulatory capture.  The Health Board is dominated by and is beholden to an industry that overwhelmingly opposed SQ 788.  Thus, the effort by the health board to overturn the clear mandate of the voters is not surprising.

It is interesting that legislators of both parties are being so critical of the health board’s actions.  I think that is indicative that most politicians, whatever their personal position on the issue, clearly understand the voters will be angry by this attempt to undo the basic intent of SQ 788 and will seek revenge at the ballot box.  It’s too bad Fallin either lacks the good political instinct to understand that or simply doesn’t care as she heads out the door.




She has never cared about the people/voters of this state - only the people who bought and paid for her and Minions.




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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
patric
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« Reply #902 on: July 13, 2018, 10:27:17 pm »

This seems like a classic case of regulatory capture.  The Health Board is dominated by and is beholden to an industry that overwhelmingly opposed SQ 788.  Thus, the effort by the health board to overturn the clear mandate of the voters is not surprising.

The requisite "stupid voters dont know what they are doing" quote from the Opium-prescribing "Pain Management" industry:

Oklahoma State Medical Association President Jean Hausheer says she's convinced Oklahoma voters didn't fully realize the implications of State Question 788, which passed June 26 with nearly 57 percent of the vote.

https://newsok.com/article/5600772/doctors-pharmacists-propose-ban-on-smoking-medical-pot

Maybe its more like the script doctors didnt realize how many older voters really sincerely want an alternative to highly addictive opioids.


 “What appears to have happened is the unelected board of health chose to amend those regulations on the spot, to things that had never been discussed.”
https://newsok.com/article/5600886/dispensaries-must-hire-pharmacists


So now two lawsuits and the threat of jail for the board's backroom shenanigans.  Some resignations might be in order now.

"We call on the district attorney of Oklahoma County to file charges against those five members for violations of the Open Meetings Act.
“It is a misdemeanor. It carries potential fines, and it carries potential jail time. And we’ve asked (prosecutors) to act.”


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/medical-marijuana-lawsuit-health-board-members-met-privately-to-draft/article_d60f5704-189c-517d-b09d-de7ccc2ebcfa.html


« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 10:39:06 pm by patric » Logged

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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #903 on: July 16, 2018, 08:16:37 am »

Ahh yes, the-voters-are-ignorant-so-we-need-to-fix-it-for-them argument.  

The same thing happened last year when we voted to soften our criminal drug laws:
Quote
In November, Oklahomans voted to downgrade virtually all drug possession cases into misdemeanors. The criminal justice reformers who voted against House Bill 1482 said the people spoke clearly about what they wanted. Supporters of the bill, however, said voters weren't told the state question eliminated what they described as drug-free school zones.

“It's not overturning the will of the people, because the people did not get a chance to vote on it,” said state Rep. Bobby Cleveland, R-Slaughterville.
https://newsok.com/article/5541013/house-votes-to-reverse-some-voter-approved-criminal-justice-reforms

Quote
“Nowhere in the state question did it mention what some of those changes were, or the effect of them,” said Shortey, R-Oklahoma City. “People basically did not know exactly how much of the statutes were being changed.”
https://newsok.com/article/5536406/oklahomas-brand-new-drug-law-on-chopping-block


Or the 10 Commandments:
Quote
After voters rejected a state question that would have allowed a Ten Commandments monument on public property, lawmakers recently approved legislation that could have the same effect.
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/lawmakers-speak-on-new-law-allowing-ten-commandments-public-display/article_f86ed487-d192-5f59-b3b6-20bb2678da5e.html


Then again... these are the same voters who pick our duly elected State government.  So maybe they are on to something.  Or maybe the"voters don't know what they are doing" rule only applies to outcomes they don't like?
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 08:22:43 am by cannon_fodder » Logged

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patric
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« Reply #904 on: July 16, 2018, 08:32:40 am »

Ahh yes, the-voters-are-ignorant-so-we-need-to-fix-it-for-them argument.  

The same thing happened last year when we voted to soften our criminal drug laws:https://newsok.com/article/5541013/house-votes-to-reverse-some-voter-approved-criminal-justice-reforms
https://newsok.com/article/5536406/oklahomas-brand-new-drug-law-on-chopping-block


Or the 10 Commandments:https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/lawmakers-speak-on-new-law-allowing-ten-commandments-public-display/article_f86ed487-d192-5f59-b3b6-20bb2678da5e.html

This time the backlash will result in enshrinement of recreational marijuana in the states constitution years before it might have happened otherwise, because thats apparently the only way voter-approved medical marijuana is going to see sunlight.


The number of signatures in support of State Question 797 rose by more than 20,000 in the last week...

The spike in support came after the Oklahoma State Department of Health voted to ban smokable medical marijuana last week.

“I think it’s a clear message that the people here in Oklahoma are aggravated with what the health department did last week"

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/organizers-recreational-marijuana-petition-now-just-signatures-shy-of-threshold/article_02fe44da-3c83-5634-a5da-256ab2ad3ef6.html
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #905 on: July 16, 2018, 09:46:54 am »

This time the backlash will result in enshrinement of recreational marijuana in the states constitution years before it might have happened otherwise, because thats apparently the only way voter-approved medical marijuana is going to see sunlight.


The number of signatures in support of State Question 797 rose by more than 20,000 in the last week...

The spike in support came after the Oklahoma State Department of Health voted to ban smokable medical marijuana last week.

“I think it’s a clear message that the people here in Oklahoma are aggravated with what the health department did last week"

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/organizers-recreational-marijuana-petition-now-just-signatures-shy-of-threshold/article_02fe44da-3c83-5634-a5da-256ab2ad3ef6.html



I signed them.  Been haranguing friends and relatives to do same.

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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
Conan71
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« Reply #906 on: July 16, 2018, 11:04:56 pm »

Funny, I was up in Colorado today.  I'm still not seeing a bunch of pot-dazed zombies wandering around aimlessly all over the place as was depicted by the anti 788 crowd.

Watching people come and go from a dispensary is pretty fascinating.  Most are very clean cut and I see people clearly older than myself coming and going not at all what the unenlightened might expect and outright lied about who is benefiting from legal RMJ.

(Hey, I was fueling my car next door to one today and I do shop at a Wal-Mart next to one as well).
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #907 on: July 17, 2018, 09:15:49 am »

Funny, I was up in Colorado today.  I'm still not seeing a bunch of pot-dazed zombies wandering around aimlessly all over the place as was depicted by the anti 788 crowd.

Watching people come and go from a dispensary is pretty fascinating.  Most are very clean cut and I see people clearly older than myself coming and going not at all what the unenlightened might expect and outright lied about who is benefiting from legal RMJ.

(Hey, I was fueling my car next door to one today and I do shop at a Wal-Mart next to one as well).


You aren't seeing them because they don't exist.  Except in the dementia filled world of the hysterical right wing extremist nonsense machine.

Older than you?  Yeah, we been waiting a long time for this!   And now there is a real opportunity for so many to get away from the opioids!!   Except for the obstructionist Jeff Session on the Federal level...  Guess he figures it's better for us to keep our guns and hard drugs...!



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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
patric
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« Reply #908 on: July 17, 2018, 04:37:54 pm »

Health Department official faked threats after Medical Marijuana ruling

The general counsel for the Oklahoma State Department of Health, who abruptly left her post Friday, faces criminal charges of falsely reporting a crime and creating a fictitious email to send herself threats over the agency's work on the state's new medical marijuana program.

Julie Ezell submitted her resignation Friday afternoon from the health department, hours after the filing of two lawsuits challenging emergency rules approved by the state Board of Health on July 10 regarding State Question 788.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/health-department-s-top-attorney-sent-threats-to-herself-regarding/article_cc17986d-98fd-5b44-ac50-c647ed371f15.html





Rogers County DA recuses from investigation into medical marijuana advocate's allegations against sheriff

The Rogers County district attorney has recused his office from evaluating whether a report filed by a medical marijuana advocate against the Rogers County sheriff would lead to charges.

Claremore Deputy Police Chief Steve Cox said Tuesday that the department received the report from Charles “Chip” Paul, co-founder and chairman of Oklahomans for Health, July 6. It was sent to Rogers County District Attorney Matt Ballard's office July 9.

Paul filed a lawsuit last month against Sheriff Scott Walton alleging that Walton assaulted him. Paul was attending a forum about medical marijuana at the Claremore Conference Center in June when he was marched out of the facility by Walton, video showed.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/rogers-county-da-recuses-from-investigation-into-medical-marijuana-advocate/article_c6f6c631-03ba-5b1e-9dbe-ba8b40c73d71.html
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Conan71
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« Reply #909 on: July 17, 2018, 08:54:59 pm »


You aren't seeing them because they don't exist.  Except in the dementia filled world of the hysterical right wing extremist nonsense machine.

Older than you?  Yeah, we been waiting a long time for this!   And now there is a real opportunity for so many to get away from the opioids!!   Except for the obstructionist Jeff Session on the Federal level...  Guess he figures it's better for us to keep our guns and hard drugs...!


Maybe Sessions owns stock in a casket company.  Opiates help find occupants for them every day.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #910 on: July 18, 2018, 07:25:33 am »

Maybe Sessions owns stock in a casket company.  Opiates help find occupants for them every day.


Yeah.  Wouldn't it be nice if we had a rational approach to mj ??   At this point, it might just be so much of a shock to my system that I would just go ahead and stroke out...

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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
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« Reply #911 on: July 18, 2018, 11:20:50 am »

Oklahoma AG: Board of Health does not have authority to ban smokable marijuana

http://ktul.com/news/local/oklahoma-ag-tells-health-board-to-amend-rules-banning-smokable-marijuana

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (KTUL) — Oklahoma Attorney General Mike Hunter has instructed the State Board of Health to amend the rules it recently implemented concerning medical marijuana.


Last week, the State Board of Health voted to implement rules banning the sale of smokable marijuana, despite outcry from proponents of State Question 788. Hunter wrote in a letter to the board that the Health Department cannot prohibit the sale of certain types of marijuana, based on the wording of the law.

"The current rules contain provisions that are inconsistent with the plain language of State Question 788 and the State Board of Health acted outside of its authority when it voted to implement them,” Hunter said in a press release. “Although I didn’t support State Question 788, the people of the state have spoken and I have a legal duty to honor the decision made by the electorate. My advice today is made pursuant to that responsibility as attorney general."

Hunter called for the Board of Health to convene a special meeting to amend the rules.

The Board of Health's role in limiting the availability of marijuana products is confined to "food and safety standards that are in line with food preparation guidelines," Hunter said in a press release. Hunter said the board does not have the authority to require dispensaries to have pharmacists present on-site for at least 40 hours a week, which was one of the rules approved by the board.

“Moving forward, I encourage all stakeholders to engage with the legislative working group looking at medical marijuana to ensure they have their concerns and recommendations heard and addressed by the legislature," Hunter said in the release.

The Board of Health is facing multiple lawsuits over the emergency medical marijuana rules.

According to the Attorney General's Office, the other concerns outlined in Hunter's letter to the Health Department include:

Restricting dispensaries to limited locations;
Prohibiting dispensaries from co-locating with other businesses;
Requiring medical marijuana be grown, processed and dispensed in enclosed structures;
Requiring a surety bond for licensing;
Setting hours of operation;
Limiting the amount of THC in flower, leaf or concentrate for sale or distribution.
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DTowner
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« Reply #912 on: July 18, 2018, 11:24:59 am »

Maybe Sessions owns stock in a casket company.  Opiates help find occupants for them every day.

I know such a potential benefit gets touted by supporters of medical marijuana, but are you aware of any evidence that it is actually so?  From what I’ve seen, so far the data shows no real decrease in opioid use/abuse/overdoses in states that have legalized medical or recreational marijuana.

As an aside, at last night’s Women in Recovery graduation ceremony most of the graduating women spoke of their early pot usage as a beginning of their terrible journey to addiction and all the attendant nightmares associated with it.  Some truly heartbreaking stories.  I’m not trying to make a case of pot as a gateway drug or that correlation is causation, but this was a stark reminder of the sad reality that for a number of people using alcohol or pot at a young age will not be simply youthful experimentation or a rite of passage to adulthood.  Instead, it will lead to a destructive cycle of broken lives, abused and neglected children and destroyed families.  Medical marijuana may be a good thing on balance for some people, but it is naive to think that making marijuana legally more readily available will not come with negative consequences for a significant number of individuals.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #913 on: July 18, 2018, 12:00:13 pm »

I know such a potential benefit gets touted by supporters of medical marijuana, but are you aware of any evidence that it is actually so?  From what I’ve seen, so far the data shows no real decrease in opioid use/abuse/overdoses in states that have legalized medical or recreational marijuana.

As an aside, at last night’s Women in Recovery graduation ceremony most of the graduating women spoke of their early pot usage as a beginning of their terrible journey to addiction and all the attendant nightmares associated with it.  Some truly heartbreaking stories.  I’m not trying to make a case of pot as a gateway drug or that correlation is causation, but this was a stark reminder of the sad reality that for a number of people using alcohol or pot at a young age will not be simply youthful experimentation or a rite of passage to adulthood.  Instead, it will lead to a destructive cycle of broken lives, abused and neglected children and destroyed families.  Medical marijuana may be a good thing on balance for some people, but it is naive to think that making marijuana legally more readily available will not come with negative consequences for a significant number of individuals.



It's even more naive to think that a large number of people are not already using mj - up to 1/3 or more...when it's illegal.

There has been a steady process of liberalizing mj laws - for decades!  And there are no indications of big increases of adverse effects.  In fact, if one is concerned about morality rates from opioids, the JAMA has found that death rates in states with easier mj laws are running on average 25% less than the Jeff Sessions attitude states.  That is a significant positive effect.

https://nypost.com/2017/09/14/marijuana-legalization-hasnt-led-to-more-drug-abuse-study/



As for all the hoopla about increased fatal accident rates from mj...well, WA claims it has "doubled" in the last several years.  The numbers just don't show it as a big problem.  They published a report covering 2008 - 2016. (Link below).  4,000 drivers were either not tested or tested negative - no drugs, no alcohol.  Of the several hundred tested positive, the vast majority were positive for alcohol and drugs (1885 total).  There were 188 tested positive for mj only (compared to 670 tested for alcohol only).  Out of 5,900+ that is still a pretty small number - 20 per year.  And if as they claim, that is twice the previous rate - 10 per year - they really aren't seeing any problem at all - it is all in the statistical noise.  And their population grew through that time by somewhere in the 15% range, so normalizing these numbers to rate of population increase would probably give about 7 or 8 more fatal accidents a year due to legal mj.  And how many people received big improvements in medical outcomes in that same time?  I bet it was more than the death rate.

Pag 11.

http://wtsc.wa.gov/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2018/04/Marijuana-and-Alcohol-Involvement-in-Fatal-Crashes-in-WA_FINAL.pdf


« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 12:02:24 pm by heironymouspasparagus » Logged

"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
patric
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« Reply #914 on: July 18, 2018, 01:10:39 pm »

As for all the hoopla about increased fatal accident rates from mj...


It is true that hospitalizations have increased over the last decade by people using marijuana, both in states like Colorado that have legalized recreational cannabis and nationwide.

However, due to the way hospitals keep patient records, it is impossible to say that marijuana is the cause of these visits. Rather, it is possible that the higher numbers of high patients are due simply to the fact that more people are using marijuana overall. To say that marijuana is causing emergency room visits to skyrocket is unfounded based on the limited data that has been collected.


http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2018/jul/06/patrick-kennedy/has-marijuana-caused-emergency-room-visits-skyrock/







Oklahoma Attorney General advises Board of Health to amend emergency rules for medical marijuana
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/oklahoma-attorney-general-advises-board-of-health-to-amend-emergency/article_ba058014-c3f3-558d-8d2c-8b9095112c50.html
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