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Author Topic: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana  (Read 397102 times)
Townsend
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« Reply #210 on: January 23, 2013, 10:42:00 am »

Not that this will fly any time soon...

Oklahoma Senate to review state's medicinal marijuana policy, penalty

http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/ok-senate-to-debate-marijuana-laws

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An Oklahoma senator has filed two separate bills that could change the state's laws on marijuana.

House Bill 902 would legalize medicinal marijuana while HB 914 would reduce the penalty for those caught with a small amount of marijuana.

Currently, the maximum penalty for possessing 1.5 ounces is one year in jail and a $1,000 fine.

Senator Constance Johnson proposes cutting the maximum to 10 days in jail and a $200 fine.

Rogers County Sheriff Scott Walton is against both proposals.

"It's not time to loosen up on anything," he said.

As for why he opposes medicinal marijuana, he just looks to the states where a similar law has already been enacted.

"It's an absolute joke," he said. "I stub my toe and now I need a script for a dime bag of weed? I think that should be a slap in the face to the medical profession or the pharmaceutical profession."

Not everyone opposes the proposals.

"I think that there are definitely medicinal purposes to marijuana," said Tulsa native Katja Newton. "I think that it has been proven with all the science and all the research that's been done."

Newton supports the decriminalization of marijuana and is in favor of Johnson's proposal to reduce the penalties.

"I think we are spending so much money by sticking people in jail for such a small thing as carrying a small amount of marijuana," she said.

If approved, the legislation would into effect Nov 1.
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patric
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« Reply #211 on: January 23, 2013, 01:29:04 pm »

Oklahoma Senate to review state's medicinal marijuana policy, penalty
http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/ok-senate-to-debate-marijuana-laws

The Rogers County attention grabber opposes it not on the grounds that its some form of evil, but rather that people would have better access to it.

Someone obtaining it from legal commercial means, is worse than clandestine encounters with shady characters?
Seems to say a lot about their economy.  Wink
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Conan71
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« Reply #212 on: January 23, 2013, 02:24:12 pm »

I got an email from an acquaintance up in Nederland, Colorado.

Now that MJ is legal, they are all pissed off that the industry will be dominated by Wal-Mart sized corporate growers.

Who said dope doesn't make you stupid?
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Townsend
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« Reply #213 on: January 23, 2013, 02:29:03 pm »


Now that MJ is legal, they are all pissed off that the industry will be dominated by Wal-Mart sized corporate growers.


Which means their hours will be cut to below 30 hours a week.
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Teatownclown
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« Reply #214 on: January 23, 2013, 04:26:30 pm »

I got an email from an acquaintance up in Nederland, Colorado.

Now that MJ is legal, they are all pissed off that the industry will be dominated by Wal-Mart sized corporate growers.

Who said dope doesn't make you stupid?

You seem to be knowledgeable about this.....
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #215 on: January 23, 2013, 05:30:46 pm »

I got an email from an acquaintance up in Nederland, Colorado.

Now that MJ is legal, they are all pissed off that the industry will be dominated by Wal-Mart sized corporate growers.

Who said dope doesn't make you stupid?


More likely pissed that the margins will decline due to the reduced risk of adverse outcomes from cultivation and sale.  Local enforcement has always been the big risk, so if that is gone, it is just a crap shoot if the Feds would get you.  No extra risk...no reason for huge profit margins.

We are already seeing the reduction in illicit profits for decriminalized/legalized marijuana.  No more Mexican drug lords - who is gonna import expensive foreign mj if there is just as good available here at half price or less!  Instead de-emphasis of the drug cartels.  Now, on to coke and meth....

How much more does it take before reality reaches the Fed level?





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« Reply #216 on: January 23, 2013, 05:59:23 pm »

Growers in Colorado are licensed and closely monitored. The system is regulated to the point that conservatives might even become believers in operations under government control. 
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patric
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« Reply #217 on: January 23, 2013, 08:42:24 pm »


More likely pissed that the margins will decline due to the reduced risk of adverse outcomes from cultivation and sale.  Local enforcement has always been the big risk, so if that is gone, it is just a crap shoot if the Feds would get you.  No extra risk...no reason for huge profit margins.

We are already seeing the reduction in illicit profits for decriminalized/legalized marijuana.  No more Mexican drug lords - who is gonna import expensive foreign mj if there is just as good available here at half price or less!  Instead de-emphasis of the drug cartels.  Now, on to coke and meth....

How much more does it take before reality reaches the Fed level?

Given the number of local law makers/enforcers that believe federal law is optional (at least when it comes to guns and health insurance) a Fed epiphany might happen quicker than we might have believed possible.  Certainly within our lifetimes.

On a more local level, the enforcement mindset is also in need of a serious re-boot. 
Deputy Dangle will be counting on WOD grants and overtime to help get little Debbie her braces, while his boss depends on a little brown bag of cash left under the big rock way yonder to pay off his casino debt. 
Perhaps the only way to deal with their resistance to a change in the status quo (and the money flow) is to pay good cops what they are worth.

Just yesterday, however, an appeals court refused to reconsider the federal rule that classifies marijuana as more dangerous than methamphetamine, but that's just a bump in the road in our long journey out of the dark ages.

When Google or Verizon (for example) dont hesitate at seriously expanding in Oklahoma, we will know we are on the right path.


 
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #218 on: January 24, 2013, 06:49:19 am »

Given the number of local law makers/enforcers that believe federal law is optional (at least when it comes to guns and health insurance) a Fed epiphany might happen quicker than we might have believed possible.  Certainly within our lifetimes.

On a more local level, the enforcement mindset is also in need of a serious re-boot.  
Deputy Dangle will be counting on WOD grants and overtime to help get little Debbie her braces, while his boss depends on a little brown bag of cash left under the big rock way yonder to pay off his casino debt.  
Perhaps the only way to deal with their resistance to a change in the status quo (and the money flow) is to pay good cops what they are worth.

Just yesterday, however, an appeals court refused to reconsider the federal rule that classifies marijuana as more dangerous than methamphetamine, but that's just a bump in the road in our long journey out of the dark ages.

When Google or Verizon (for example) dont hesitate at seriously expanding in Oklahoma, we will know we are on the right path.

 


I used to believe that stuff about "within our lifetimes".... 45 years ago.  No more.  Neither I, nor you will live long enough to see the powers that be voluntarily give up the cash flow created by illicit marijuana.  (I am still a little bit surprised that the US repealed prohibition!)

As for paying good cops what they are worth...whew!  What a can of worms that one is.  But the principle also applies to firemen, teachers, etc.  And the institutionalized resistance we see to that concept is pretty well gonna guarantee it can't happen.  See the posts on Fallin's tax cuts....apply liberally.



« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 06:56:28 am by heironymouspasparagus » Logged

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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #219 on: January 24, 2013, 08:25:16 am »


Neither I, nor you will live long enough to see the powers that be voluntarily give up the cash flow created by illicit marijuana.

I used to believe this as well. But seeing voters in Washington and Colorado pass initiatives and their states seeing tourism dollars made me reconsider. Then seeing Pat Robertson flip and talk about medical marijuana made me sit up and pay attention. Medical treatments go in cycles and homeopathic and natural solutions are really fashionable right now.

You are right. It is really all about cash. But once some state shows it to be revenue positive, the game will change.
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Townsend
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« Reply #220 on: January 24, 2013, 10:35:19 am »


You are right. It is really all about cash. But once some state shows it to be revenue positive, the game will change.

You've seen how slowly Oklahoma tends to act in regards to progression.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #221 on: January 24, 2013, 10:58:17 am »

This is at the Federal level, though.  Obama has been about as "liberal" as I have ever heard a President be, and he says it isn't a priority with him.  Which is a king-dog, major fail!  (To decriminalize mj)

Saving $20 billion a year in Federal enforcement.  Saving how many billions nationwide for incarceration costs.  Saving how many lives - a few here and many more across the border for just stopping enforcement of mj importation.  

I have a feeling that mj cross border movement is the real monetary driver for the drug cartels...just a gut feeling kind of thing based on the relative volume of useage and kinds of dollars the news is always hawking about as the money involved.  If there is $800 billion in mj, and $30 billion in cocaine and heroin, then the driver is mj.  (Anyone have some good numbers on the relative annual values??).  That means that the criminal organizations would shrink dramatically, the amount per person involved in trafficing would go down - quite possibly to pretty much nothing.  If someone is making $50,000 a week selling mj and legally, it goes to $50 a week...or less, the activity cannot be supported.  Nobody will be "selling" high dollar mj.  And if all those dealers turn to the other drugs, well, there is a limited market, spread across relatively more suppliers.  Price competition, fewer suppliers, collapse of the industry possibly?  Harvard School of Business 101.

Get the profits OUT of illicit drugs and the business will fail!  By definition.



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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
patric
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« Reply #222 on: January 24, 2013, 11:37:48 am »

Get the profits OUT of illicit drugs and the business will fail!  By definition.

The old-school train of thought is that seizure and forfeiture of "drug profits" would accomplish that, but it is self-serving and just fuels corruption.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM3KqIt3f64

Its also unduly hard on off-the grid country folk that don't trust banks and always carry cash, sometimes loosing their life savings because a drug dog picked up on the traces commonly found on paper currency. 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/31/drug-search-trekies-stopped-searched-illinois_n_1364087.html

The idea of the Mexican Cartels going belly up because no one needs their products anymore... they may have to change their business model to peddling donkey porn just to survive once that happens.
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Teatownclown
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« Reply #223 on: January 24, 2013, 11:42:59 am »



By the time Okiehoma gets around to this issue, the thrill will be gone....or we'll all be dead whatever comes first.
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nathanm
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« Reply #224 on: January 24, 2013, 12:53:04 pm »

I have a feeling that mj cross border movement is the real monetary driver for the drug cartels...just a gut feeling kind of thing based on the relative volume of useage and kinds of dollars the news is always hawking about as the money involved.  If there is $800 billion in mj, and $30 billion in cocaine and heroin, then the driver is mj.  (Anyone have some good numbers on the relative annual values??).  

Only that you should never believe the value you're told on the news. If I had had to pay those prices when I was just leaving high school I would have starved to death.
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"Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration" --Abraham Lincoln
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