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December 10, 2018, 08:41:04 pm
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Author Topic: "A generation of amoral, uneducated, welfare dependent, brutalised youngsters "  (Read 4235 times)
erfalf
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« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2011, 12:29:30 pm »

I could just as easily allege that they are the result of several generations of widening income disparity, decreasing opportunity and reduced public education funding.

Can someone PLEASE explain to me why the "widening income disparity" is such a HUGE problem. Because in my opinion it sounds like a giant case of penis envy and nothing more.
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Townsend
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« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2011, 12:39:07 pm »

Marie Antoinette?

We're honored your highness.
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we vs us
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« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2011, 12:50:43 pm »

Can someone PLEASE explain to me why the "widening income disparity" is such a HUGE problem. Because in my opinion it sounds like a giant case of penis envy and nothing more.

Widening disparity directly affects income mobility . . . or more succinctly, the availability of the American Dream.  It means that money is silo'd at the top of the scale and is increasingly not available to the other levels.  It also means that the middle class, which we've traditionally valued highly in the US, is shrinking.  

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Gaspar
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« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2011, 12:50:54 pm »

. . .both popular vernacular for failed liberalism. . .

You can just call it "liberalism."   Wink

The adjective is implied.  That's why it is constantly absorbed with "reforming" it's own programs.

Have you ever noticed how statists are constantly "reforming" their own handiwork? Education reform. Health-care reform. Welfare reform. Tax reform. The very fact that they're always busy "reforming" is an implicit admission that they didn't get it right the first 50 times. – Lawrence W. Reed, economist
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AquaMan
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« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2011, 03:53:20 pm »

You're already on the lawn chair with the Bud aren't you?

The whole thing may just be mob mentality at work. Yahoo reports that many of the arrested are neither poor, welfare slugs, downtrodden or maligned. So far they include an Olympic ambassador, a student from Exeter college and the daughter of a wealthy family, a musician who wanted a violin, a social worker, etc. IOW pretty mainstream people caught up in the excitement of the moment.  

Just warms your heart.

BTW, I think you've done an admirable job without your home boys, Conan and Guido, to cover your back.  Smiley
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onward...through the fog
nathanm
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« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2011, 07:06:35 pm »

You are so confidant that this is a systemic failure due to "Labor party pandering" and "failed social engineering", (both popular vernacular for failed liberalism) that you seem to have missed the direct parallels we pointed out. I could just as easily allege that they are the result of several generations of widening income disparity, decreasing opportunity and reduced public education funding.
Ironic then, that the riots come after significant cuts to social programs and schooling. Funny that something that's being dismantled would be the cause. Or maybe Gassy is just unable to conceive of a causation for anything that doesn't involve liberal programs, dependency, or laziness.

And Reed is clearly an idiot. It's not the liberals that are reforming, it's the neoliberals, conservatives, and neoconservatives who insist that the old programs must be dismantled or reformed.
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"Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration" --Abraham Lincoln
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« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2011, 07:41:19 am »

You're already on the lawn chair with the Bud Marshall's aren't you?

Let's at least assume a decent beer.
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TheArtist
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« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2011, 07:48:35 am »

A.  Being poor doesn't equal being violent and destructive.  I came from dirt "poor" people, but we worked hard and made something of ourselves.

B.  Reform has to happen.  Even if you could snap your fingers and create a perfect program today, the world would change and then the program would have to change/reform as well.  Not to say that the program or system may or may not have been perfect in the first place, but just because something has to be reformed, doesn't mean it was wrong.  However,  I wish our school system for instance, had in place methodologies that constantly evaluated how things are working and what needs to be reformed/changed.  My old school for instance worked perfectly well when my demographic went there, but as the demographic changed, the school and its teaching methods did not, and thus the results got worse.  The school was perfectly fine, but because it did not reform to meet the current situation, things got worse.  Its obvious that our school system needs to put in place a sytem that constantly evaluates the situation and "updates"/ reforms each and every school to meet current curriculum and teaching methodology needs. But I do not see that happening?  Why not?

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"When you only have two pennies left in the world, buy a loaf of bread with one, and a lily with the other."-Chinese proverb. "Arts a staple. Like bread or wine or a warm coat in winter. Those who think it is a luxury have only a fragment of a mind. Mans spirit grows hungry for art in the same way h
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« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2011, 10:44:41 am »

Its obvious that our school system needs to put in place a sytem that constantly evaluates the situation and "updates"/ reforms each and every school to meet current curriculum and teaching methodology needs. But I do not see that happening?  Why not?

Inertia.  Threre's plenty of blame to share so let's not turn this into some kind of war of ideology.
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Red Arrow
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« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2011, 11:46:43 am »

Widening disparity directly affects income mobility . . . or more succinctly, the availability of the American Dream.  It means that money is silo'd at the top of the scale and is increasingly not available to the other levels.  It also means that the middle class, which we've traditionally valued highly in the US, is shrinking.  

How many more years (or sooner?) do you think it will take the upper class to collect all the money/wealth and have none available for anyone else?
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BKDotCom
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« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2011, 09:25:10 pm »

How many more years (or sooner?) do you think it will take the upper class to collect all the money/wealth and have none available for anyone else?
When that happens the economy will really collapse.  As the rich will run out of money as well.
It's the uneducated masses that buy the stuff that make the rich rich.
No money to spend = not giving money to the rich folk
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« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2011, 08:15:57 am »

When that happens the economy will really collapse.  As the rich will run out of money as well.
It's the uneducated masses that buy the stuff that make the rich rich.
No money to spend = not giving money to the rich folk

Since there is (supposedly) a finite amount of wealth and the rich are hoarding everything they can get their fingers on, when is it going to happen?
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AquaMan
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« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2011, 08:43:10 am »

Wealth is an illusion. It is only quantifiable as purchasing power or power over others. Truly, what value was it for a king to own jewels, gold and land if he couldn't force others to provide food and defense for him. In the end, power is wealth. Power gets you food and defense.

This little construct we have of income/class mobility is a fairly recent thing (last 100-200 yrs. It coincided with the rise of democracy, something we can proudly take credit for. There is no guarantee it will last, though I think the current concentration of wealth is an economic aberration, not a profound social change.
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« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2011, 09:27:07 am »

... I think the current concentration of wealth is an economic aberration, not a profound social change.

I think I can "buy" that.  (Pun intended)
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