Post Office to Cut Workforce by 20%

[Gaspar]

That is an unjustifiable position and unsupportable conclusions. It may be your opinion but the USPS is not the same operation as the other two. Its goals for distribution are only domestic in nature for one thing. Seen any USPS trucks delivering to remote regions of foreign countries like "Brown"?

BTW, what is the cost of their management? Is that included in your labor costs and at what level does the differentiation between labor and mgmt occur for them? If you are figuring total labor cost are you/they counting lower levels of management that are often promoted to keep them out of union purview?

Not so simple when you look at the details. Real easy to just say they are unsustainable because of high labor costs. That simplistic, bombastic thought process was on display last nite at the debate.

I think at this point I will simply respect your opinion and leave it at that.

I use the term UNSUSTAINABLE because their labor cost is UNSUSTAINABLE.  Unless you can show some accounting magic that shows they are operating an enterprise capable of SUSTAINING itself based on it's current fees, or offering solutions, than you are not really contributing to this discussion.

[Gaspar]

Ok, since everyone would rather criticize the poster rather than offer solution, here's what I would do.

1. Reorganize the USPS like a normal business eliminating the huge number of supervisory and management positions.

2. Raise the rate on postage to competitive rates with other carriers.

3. Re-establish labor rates and benefits as competitive to other industries.

4. Create a structure where advancement was not dictated by tenure, but rather by performance.


Now. . .we know that none of the above will ever happen, so we can move on.

[RecycleMichael]

A high percentage of the police department budget is also labor. A high percentage of the military budget is also labor. A high percentage of the business known as Big Splash is also labor.

Stop back-pedaling. You know you started this thread just to Union bash.

[Gaspar]

A high percentage of the police department budget is also labor. A high percentage of the military budget is also labor. A high percentage of the business known as Big Splash is also labor.

Stop back-pedaling. You know you started this thread just to Union bash.

It seems we have to make a choice then.  Should the USPS just be a federal government entity supported by the taxpayer?

Or. . .should it be funded through fees alone?


Think about the answer.

[RecycleMichael]

Let me tell you a story, gaspar. Brink your binky and blanket and just lay here on the couch.

The story begins in Kansas City where a businessman with considerable influence convinced the federal government to give him contracts to deliver military supplies along the Santa Fe trail. He was involved in many scandals, but had important friends in Washington D.C. He formed a private delivery company with his lobbyist as a silent partner in 1860 to secure more government contracts.

The country was about to go into a civil war and the country was close to breaking into little nations. Their pitchman suggested a publicity stunt that could be used to show how small a countrty we really were and that especially important that the west coast was aligned with the status quo government and not the forces of confederacy.

They proposed a mail delivery in ten days from the Mississippi River to Sacramento. All they needed was $90,000 (worth about $15 million today). They built 157 stations about ten miles apart. That was a far as a horse could fully gallop without causing damage.

The stunt worked. The west was able to communicate with the rest of the country and ship letters. All during this time, the federal government was also paying a private contractor to wire the country on essentially the same route with the new technology called telegraph. Two days after the telegraph wires connected, the Pony Express lost their federal funding and closed. They were only in business for less than 18 months. Within a year after that, the federal government stopped funding telegraph and poured all their transportation spending into rail lines and took seven years to connect the country by rail.

Tell me gaspar, at what point do you think the federal government should have or not have been in this business venture?

Was it a smart move for the government to pay a contractor to build a network of mail delivery? The public relations success of the stunt was overwhelmingly successful, but should the government be spending tax dollars on such PR? Even when they knew that the program was already outdated?

The federal government funding was clearly the only way the letters ever got sent, the telegraph transmitted, or the passengers transported by rail. Each of these were private run ventures that only made sense with heavy labor subsidy by the rest of the country's citizens.

Were we wise to make those choices? Should the government be partners in communications and travel? While the Pony Express and telegraph were not labor intensive, building the rail lines could only be accomplished by a large influx of new workers from other countries. Was the government wise to fund a program that required millions of immigrants?

[Gaspar]

I'm not debating the validity of the agency.  I'm simply looking at $$.

There are ways that the USPS can continue to survive, and even flourish.  They have infrastructure already in place that would take decades for private counterparts to match.  They are being forced to make contrary choices, because it is forbidden by by the group that controls their labor force.

That is all.

I thoroughly enjoyed your history lesson.  Too bad I will have to tell that to my grandchildren in the past tense.

[AquaMan]

I think at this point I will simply respect your opinion and leave it at that.

Should have stopped right here. Do you not understand what "respect opinion" and "leave it at that" means?

I use the term UNSUSTAINABLE because their labor cost is UNSUSTAINABLE.  Unless you can show some accounting magic that shows they are operating an enterprise capable of SUSTAINING itself based on it's current fees, or offering solutions, than you are not really contributing to this discussion.

Your contribution is talking points. You don't seem to care much for answering questions or noting details that conflict with your talking points.

Go get you Budweiser and commune on the lawn chairs in your back yard. You don't need details there either.

[Ed W]

...they operate an UNSUSTAINABLE enterprise due primarily to the cost of labor.

Not exactly true.  UPS and FedEx are free to charge market rates to deliver packages, but USPS is constrained by delivery charges.  Sure, you can send your water bill by FedEx or pay the phone bill through UPS, but expect to pay a couple of dollars to send that bit of paper.  In a free market, USPS would be charging bulk mailers rates equal to UPS and FedEx.  We'd pay a couple of bucks to send a card to grandma.  The bulk mailers would bolt, of course, leading the Postal Service to higher fees and more layoffs.   

[nathanm]

They are also proposing to drop out of the federal healthcare plan and shop private market plans that offer cheaper rates.  

Anything would be cheaper than pre-paying 75 years of benefits over 10 years, as Congress has required. That cost is entirely responsible for USPS' last several years of losses. Barring that, their present labor cost would be perfectly sustainable at present mailing volume and price. Just so you know, they've already canned almost 300,000 workers since 2000.

[Red Arrow]

Just so you know, they've already canned almost 300,000 workers since 2000.

How big was the USPS workforce in 2000?  Any attrition involved?

[Red Arrow]

Were we wise to make those choices? Should the government be partners in communications and travel? While the Pony Express and telegraph were not labor intensive, building the rail lines could only be accomplished by a large influx of new workers from other countries. Was the government wise to fund a program that required millions of immigrants?

Deciding which programs are worthy is where most of the differences of opinion occur.

[nathanm]

How big was the USPS workforce in 2000?  Any attrition involved?

It peaked at about 900,000. I don't know how they got from 900,000 to a little over 600,000.