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April 25, 2024, 09:53:36 pm
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Author Topic: 102 Things NOT To Do If You Hate Taxes  (Read 19422 times)
AquaMan
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« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2011, 10:05:23 am »

Actually corporate waste is quite limited due to accountability to shareholders.  Your example doesn't compare to layers of useless administration in government and what you are referring to as waste is built into the cost of products we buy.  As well, there's more than simple corporate laziness behind throwing away items.

Government has spent money it doesn't have because it's not accountable to the people who are it's stakeholders.  They way you cure that is with a BBA.

You don't need to be an apologist for corporate waste. Stockholders only care about return on their stock and deferring waste costs to others or to the future accomplishes that. It is actually much larger than the potential for government waste, even including the military. GDP is larger than our budget.

And the real cost of that corporate waste isn't reflected in the real price, merely the laid in cost. Do you think GE added in the cost of removing PCB's from a dammed up lake (I think it was Georgia) they polluted to their customers real time? No they didn't. They were so lazy and shortsighted that they never even considered cleaning up their mess. Eventually the taxpayer foots most of that type of laziness.
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Conan71
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« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2011, 10:42:37 am »

You don't need to be an apologist for corporate waste. Stockholders only care about return on their stock and deferring waste costs to others or to the future accomplishes that. It is actually much larger than the potential for government waste, even including the military. GDP is larger than our budget.

And the real cost of that corporate waste isn't reflected in the real price, merely the laid in cost. Do you think GE added in the cost of removing PCB's from a dammed up lake (I think it was Georgia) they polluted to their customers real time? No they didn't. They were so lazy and shortsighted that they never even considered cleaning up their mess. Eventually the taxpayer foots most of that type of laziness.

Huh?  Did anyone else's head just ratchet a full 360 reading that?  Cost is a function of price paid.

I've worked in retail and your account of mountains of items being thrown away is complete fiction and a truly poor example of trying to compare corporate waste to that of government unless your previous employer does things vastly different than most other big box operations.  Many defective and over-run items which are returned wind up being reconditioned and/or re-sold via discount outlets like Big Lots or internet retailers.  But if you care to make that comparison based on broken and defective retail goods, then do the same on a material basis and the government still manages to mismanage and waste assets far worse than the corporate world because, again, they are accountable to no one for their waste.

Corporations are necessarily run far more efficiently than government, again because they are accountable to shareholders to minimize waste and duplication of services by needing to maintain profitability objectives (I'm sorry, I mean greed objectives for those who are free-market challenged).  They can also fire people who don't perform their job duties as expected a whole lot easier than government can (or will).
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Gaspar
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« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2011, 10:45:54 am »

You don't need to be an apologist for corporate waste. Stockholders only care about return on their stock and deferring waste costs to others or to the future accomplishes that. It is actually much larger than the potential for government waste, even including the military. GDP is larger than our budget.

And the real cost of that corporate waste isn't reflected in the real price, merely the laid in cost. Do you think GE added in the cost of removing PCB's from a dammed up lake (I think it was Georgia) they polluted to their customers real time? No they didn't. They were so lazy and shortsighted that they never even considered cleaning up their mess. Eventually the taxpayer foots most of that type of laziness.

Provide a single example of an industry that government engages in where the equivalent private industry counterpart is less efficient.

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Conan71
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« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2011, 10:48:02 am »

Provide a single example of an industry that government engages in where the equivalent private industry counterpart is less efficient.



Big box stores, can't you read?
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Gaspar
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« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2011, 10:50:12 am »

Big box stores, can't you read?

LOL.

This is my favorite "Fetch Boo boo" challenge.  They usually come back with "The Post Office" or some obscure infrastructural or regulatory reference.
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Townsend
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« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2011, 10:58:24 am »

LOL.

This is my favorite "Fetch Boo boo" challenge.  They usually come back with "The Post Office" or some obscure infrastructural or regulatory reference.

You have this conversation over and over so you know what your "they" will do?

Did you really LOL?
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Gaspar
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« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2011, 11:17:13 am »

You have this conversation over and over so you know what your "they" will do?

Did you really LOL?

No it was more of an SMP.
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Townsend
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« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2011, 11:24:14 am »

No it was more of an SMP.

Oh gross
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AquaMan
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« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2011, 11:57:17 am »

Huh?  Did anyone else's head just ratchet a full 360 reading that?  Cost is a function of price paid.

I've worked in retail and your account of mountains of items being thrown away is complete fiction and a truly poor example of trying to compare corporate waste to that of government unless your previous employer does things vastly different than most other big box operations.  Many defective and over-run items which are returned wind up being reconditioned and/or re-sold via discount outlets like Big Lots or internet retailers.  But if you care to make that comparison based on broken and defective retail goods, then do the same on a material basis and the government still manages to mismanage and waste assets far worse than the corporate world because, again, they are accountable to no one for their waste.

Corporations are necessarily run far more efficiently than government, again because they are accountable to shareholders to minimize waste and duplication of services by needing to maintain profitability objectives (I'm sorry, I mean greed objectives for those who are free-market challenged).  They can also fire people who don't perform their job duties as expected a whole lot easier than government can (or will).

That's just silly. Lets take just one industry which I am familiar with. Office Supplies. If you want I could choose the Oil industry, the medical industry, newspapers or groceries. They all are hopeless wasters.

Big box locations in Tulsa numbers about a dozen. They are open 360 days a year. Everyday we threw away stock that was returned, damaged in shipment, slow moving stock that was not part of a return w/credit agreement, etc. Enough that we had to contract with a company for a huge trash compactor to be regularly hauled off. One chair per day that needed a part ordered. That may have needed a wheel replaced. That could have been marked down and sold as is. Times 360, times 12. That's 4320 chairs per day just in Tulsa. That's just one item from one department. At an average margin of 40% if the chair cost $100 that is $172,000. No return agreement on most of them. That doesn't count the opportunity loss of having that money used in more productive pursuits. The real loss for them is $172,000 plus at least the cost of borrowing $262,000 at market rates. And believe me I am being conservative with those figures. They could contract with an independent to buy them, repair them and resell them, like companies did back in the 1980's but they are scared of being underpriced in their own market. More importantly, there is no mechanism, no loss prevention protocol within the company to do so. If corporate doesn't see it, it doesn't exist. Is any of this sounding familiar? Sort of like governmental bs? Well, then you think they may outfit each store with a small repair facility and/or an employee so they could repair and resell themselves. Wrong. That would mean additional lost $per foot and labor expended. No patience for that. You really think the stockholders know they are throwing away nearly a quarter million $ of their money just in one department? No. If everyone does it then its not noticeable to them.

Then add in the partial theft (remainder thrown away), the timely materials like calendars and planners, the broken plastics, store merchandising fixtures, displays and other generally lazy, short sighted business decisions like belief in "just in time" restocking systems or overdependence on digital solutions and you see some really incompetent, lazy businessmen who succeed on the backs of employees. McDonalds in college taught me one thing, its the front counter guy who IS the company.

ONE more example cause I doubt I'll ever change  you guys perception. Because mainly I think you only view government waste as a result of social costs and labor. I ask this of Recyclemike: How is the recycling of these new mercury laden lightbulbs being handled? Did the industry accompany their release with recycling centers located within the point of sale locations? Or did they niftily shuffle off that responsibility with printed instructions to "please recycle safely at your local recycling center" so that you and other taxpayers would pay for that? Did they include the cost of that potentially dangerous product in the pricing of the product? How much would that be? OR did they do what bottlers did when they stopped using glass containers that you could recycle for $.05 cents apiece in favor of plastic that ended up in rivers, lakes, oceans and landfills at no cost whatsoever? Just curious.

Talk about waste and you have no one who outpaces industry. If you're talking incompetence, note that most politicians came from the business world. They take those competencies with them.
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AquaMan
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« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2011, 12:07:20 pm »

Provide a single example of an industry that government engages in where the equivalent private industry counterpart is less efficient.



Why? You feeling lazier than usual?

Government and industry are not the same thing. They may have functions that mirror each other but totally different goals to reach. But even then there is a balance to such things. When private industry is vastly superior to government in a particular role they seem to get privatized. When an industry is particularly abusive or incompetent they tend to get regulated or those functions are subject to increased monitoring.

The postal service is not governmental Boo Boo. Beware belittling another's experience. You run the risk of sounding like Rush. Well informed but drawing the wrong conclusions.
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Gaspar
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« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2011, 12:17:36 pm »

Why? You feeling lazier than usual?

Government and industry are not the same thing. They may have functions that mirror each other but totally different goals to reach. But even then there is a balance to such things. When private industry is vastly superior to government in a particular role they seem to get privatized. When an industry is particularly abusive or incompetent they tend to get regulated or those functions are subject to increased monitoring.

The postal service is not governmental Boo Boo. Beware belittling another's experience. You run the risk of sounding like Rush. Well informed but drawing the wrong conclusions.

Yep!  Wink
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guido911
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« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2011, 12:27:51 pm »

You're one of the most thoughtful conservatives on the board...
 

You posted this under a Conan post by accident. But thanks anyway.  Grin
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guido911
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« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2011, 12:33:57 pm »

The TSA budget is only $8.1 Billion. That is about a week of the cost of the Iraq war.

Thank you W.

And also a "thank you" to John Kerry, The Swimmer, Al Gore, Chris Dodd.....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCVZlLBchVE[/youtube]
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custosnox
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« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2011, 02:13:37 pm »

*sigh*
33. Do not use the internet, which was developed by the military Algore counter culture hippies CERN.
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Conan71
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« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2011, 02:41:44 pm »

And also a "thank you" to John Kerry, The Swimmer, Al Gore, Chris Dodd.....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCVZlLBchVE[/youtube]

Yeah, well that's just manufactured by Faux from multiple sound bites  Roll Eyes

Again, their ultimate denial and desertion of President Bush on this shows liberals inventing their own reality when it's convenient.
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
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