"In God We Trust" on all federal buildings?

[guido911]

You never answered either of my questions, the first would be what is the purpose of having that as our motto and placing it on every building.  The second would be are you saying that if the motto were different and endorsed a belief other than yours such as I proposed, would you have a problem with it being on everything federal?

And I love how you say I need to grow a pair because I speak out against something I disagree with.  I am willing to go against the status quo yet apparantly I'm a weakling.  

I DO NOT GIVE A SH!T whether this motto goes on any building. I am just tired of your and others whining about it. As for any other motto going on buildings; I do not live in your hypothetical world. I mean, we can "what if" this issue to death. But as my drill sergeant once said: "What if...what if...what if...worms had machine guns, then birds would not f#ck with them". If you want more information about my position, see my response to Swake and pay particular attention to what the law of the land is on this question.

[cannon_fodder]

If not to proclaim our religious beliefs as a nation, what would the point of putting this on buildings be?

Why not "all men are created equal" or "freedom and justice for all" or any of a littany of other nationalistic slogans that aren't judeo-christian centered?

There is no doubt in any honest discussion that this is about proclaiming religion.  There is no other reason to choose this phrase - which was chosen after the civil war to show we weren't a godless nation.  At that time we had just become a nation were slavery was illegal, perhaps now we can be comfortable with some of our citizens being ok with non judeo-christian religious ideas.

[ZYX]

Guido, if you believe that placing "In God We Trust" on all buildings is a non issue then you desperately need to crawl out from under your rock. There would be a mountain of lawsuits, that would undoubtedly be won, and then become very costly. For a country that claims religious freedom, I do not see how we can go around and place signs of my and your religion and say that it is no big deal. Calling this a non issue is a highly arrogant and ignorant statement.

[custosnox]

I DO NOT GIVE A SH!T whether this motto goes on any building. I am just tired of your and others whining about it. As for any other motto going on buildings; I do not live in your hypothetical world. I mean, we can "what if" this issue to death. But as my drill sergeant once said: "What if...what if...what if...worms had machine guns, then birds would not f#ck with them". If you want more information about my position, see my response to Swake and pay particular attention to what the law of the land is on this question.

My point is that you can be all high and mighty about it and tell everyone else to do whatever you think they should do when it is your religion that is being promoted.  I am willing to place bets that you would be yelling and screaming in any situation where the shoe was on the other foot.  As far as the Supreme Court's opinions on the matter, are you trying to tell me that the Supreme Court has never handed down a decision that later were decided differantly by the same court, just with different Justices?  The "Law of the Land" is the Constitution, how it is interpreted changes often.  As far as your insistance about the majority of the nation being Christians, you do realize that there are provisions in the Constitution specifically intended to keep the majority from running ramshot over the minority, right?  I'm also guessing you still haven't come up with a good spin on what purpose placing this on everying serves other than to promote a beleif in a god.

[guido911]

My point is that you can be all high and mighty about it and tell everyone else to do whatever you think they should do when it is your religion that is being promoted.  I am willing to place bets that you would be yelling and screaming in any situation where the shoe was on the other foot.  As far as the Supreme Court's opinions on the matter, are you trying to tell me that the Supreme Court has never handed down a decision that later were decided differantly by the same court, just with different Justices?  The "Law of the Land" is the Constitution, how it is interpreted changes often.  As far as your insistance about the majority of the nation being Christians, you do realize that there are provisions in the Constitution specifically intended to keep the majority from running ramshot over the minority, right?  I'm also guessing you still haven't come up with a good spin on what purpose placing this on everying serves other than to promote a beleif in a god.

How is my Roman Catholic faith being promoted with "In God You Trust"? Second, as far as USSC opinions changing over time, tell me what is leading you to believe that our judicial system is going to find the motto and pledge unconstitutional. The second quoted passage was from an opinion in the 1950s. I think it's settled now. Now, I am not sure what "running ramshot" means, but I have no problem with the inference that trusting in God is a good thing.

And yes, this is a minor issue. Alarmists like you or that big doosh Barry Lynn noted in the OP's link want to believe and encourage others to think that simply encouraging the posting of our nation's motto, which is CONSTITUTIONAL whether you like it or not, is somehow oppressive is so insulting.

I would like to know if any recent polls have been taken on whether the public supports "In God We Trust" on money or anything else. I have seen a 2003 poll that had either or 80 or 90% approval.

[guido911]

Why not "all men are created equal"...

Because women (and most likely Cust) would be gravely offended since that slogan is plainly misogynistic and bigoted. It was probably penned by a Christian man.

[Red Arrow]

Because women (and most likely Cust) would be gravely offended since that slogan is plainly misogynistic and bigoted. It was probably penned by a Christian man.

Make it more PC and with the times, "all persons are created equal".

Before the women's movement, we were taught in English grammar that "men" was not specifically restricted to male humans when used in a general sense. Maybe that too was just a sign of the times, 50s and early to mid 60s.  English does not have a gender associated with a word like Spanish, French, German, and others.  Last I heard, even German has become PC by saying the words are "der", "die", or "das" words with no gender implied.   

[custosnox]

How is my Roman Catholic faith being promoted with "In God You Trust"? Second, as far as USSC opinions changing over time, tell me what is leading you to believe that our judicial system is going to find the motto and pledge unconstitutional. The second quoted passage was from an opinion in the 1950s. I think it's settled now. Now, I am not sure what "running ramshot" means, but I have no problem with the inference that trusting in God is a good thing.

And yes, this is a minor issue. Alarmists like you or that big doosh Barry Lynn noted in the OP's link want to believe and encourage others to think that simply encouraging the posting of our nation's motto, which is CONSTITUTIONAL whether you like it or not, is somehow oppressive is so insulting.

I would like to know if any recent polls have been taken on whether the public supports "In God We Trust" on money or anything else. I have seen a 2003 poll that had either or 80 or 90% approval.

In the 1950's America had a real love affair going on with hard core christianity and all but making it a national religion, hence the reason it became our motto in the 50's.  That does not mean it's settled.  Do I think it's likely it will change anytime soon?  No, but I do reconize the possibility.  I will not simply sit here, stick my fingers in my ears, close my eyes and pretend that the world has not changed in 50+ years.

Of course you would not see the idea of trusting in your God as a bad thing, he is your god.  You still don't understand that part.  Just because you see it as a good thing doesn't mean that other's beliefs support that idea.  But as long as your religion is being supported, your all fine and dandy with it. 

Still waiting on a non-religous purpose for this.

[Red Arrow]

In the 1950's America had a real love affair going on with hard core Protestant christianity and all but making it a national religion

Remember that JFK being a Roman Catholic was a big deal in his run for President.

[cannon_fodder]

Again, 80-90% of Americans probably don't know that "In God We Trust" was added upon the guidance of a Christian Preacher to show the world and future generations we weren't a godless nation following the unrivaled carnage, rape and murder of the Civil War. "Under God" was slipped into the pledge to differentiate us against the godless communists in the 1950's (and in God We Trust as the official Motto in 1956). Most support it simply because they think it was always there, not out of any ethos; and their belief is wrong. The two instances you brought up were put in place specifically in an attempt to advertise our national religion.

"In God we Trust."   "Under God"

We know it isn't supporting Eastern religions (largely lacking a god).  It certainly isn't including atheists.  It's not considering naturalistic religions.  Pluralist religions are not included either.  It only incorporates monotheistic religions that belief in divine providence or intervention (hence trust in a singular omnipotent being).  Few Muslims or Jews frequently use the term "God" when referring to their deity, when it was written Catholics would have certainly preferred the latin.  Still others find it sacrilege to associate their Lord with currency.  And yet more people have been taught NOT to display their religion to the world.

I'm not all too concerned with the currency or even the pledge, I find it kind of amusing.  Better yet, in order to defend the position religious people have resorted to arguing that "In God We Trust" really has no meaning.  I heard if you say trusting in God has noreal  religious meaning three times, a cock crows.   

However, as I said above, spending tens of millions to emblazzin it on public buildings is for no other reason than to proclaim how godly of a nation we are.

[Conan71]

However, as I said above, spending tens of millions to emblazzin it on public buildings is for no other reason than to proclaim how godly of a nation we are.

There's one reason to dislike it right there.  In this age of new austerity (Hah!) we don't need to spend additional millions on this.  I believe the conservatives were outraged by the amount being spent on signs identifying all the porkulus projects, so what gives with this?

[guido911]

Again, 80-90% of Americans probably don't know that "In God We Trust" was added upon the guidance of a Christian Preacher to show the world and future generations we weren't a godless nation following the unrivaled carnage, rape and murder of the Civil War. "Under God" was slipped into the pledge to differentiate us against the godless communists in the 1950's (and in God We Trust as the official Motto in 1956). Most support it simply because they think it was always there, not out of any ethos; and their belief is wrong. The two instances you brought up were put in place specifically in an attempt to advertise our national religion.

"In God we Trust."   "Under God"

We know it isn't supporting Eastern religions (largely lacking a god).  It certainly isn't including atheists.  It's not considering naturalistic religions.  Pluralist religions are not included either.  It only incorporates monotheistic religions that belief in divine providence or intervention (hence trust in a singular omnipotent being).  Few Muslims or Jews frequently use the term "God" when referring to their deity, when it was written Catholics would have certainly preferred the latin.  Still others find it sacrilege to associate their Lord with currency.  And yet more people have been taught NOT to display their religion to the world.

I'm not all too concerned with the currency or even the pledge, I find it kind of amusing.  Better yet, in order to defend the position religious people have resorted to arguing that "In God We Trust" really has no meaning.  I heard if you say trusting in God has noreal  religious meaning three times, a cock crows.   

However, as I said above, spending tens of millions to emblazzin it on public buildings is for no other reason than to proclaim how godly of a nation we are.

I can agree with your last sentence, the cost is why I will probably oppose it. None of the other stuff matters because it is settled law that "Under God" and "In God We Trust" have repeatedly survived constitutional scrutiny. For those who cannot accept that, I can't help them. I will remember, though, the next time an anti-abortion statute comes along and how my support for it will be worthless because of Roe and Casey--which is certainly settled so I will be wasting my breath.  

As for you assessment that 80-90% of the public not knowing the circumstances surrounding the motto's creation, I would like a link for that. Folks in the fifties were very in tune on politics as I recall from my parents. It's the morons today who in my opinion don't know smile about law and government. Here is another part of the history of "In God You Trust".

One of the first found references of the motto “In God We Trust” is heard in the U.S. National Anthem, The Star-Spangled Banner. The song was written by Francis Scott Key in 1814 and later adopted as the national anthem. In the last stanza Key writes a variation of the phrase: “...And this be our motto: In God is our trust. And the Star Spangled Banner in triumph shall wave, O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave.” The words were shortened to In God We Trust and first applied to U.S. coins in 1864.

http://www.allabouthistory.org/in-god-we-trust.htm

[cannon_fodder]

I accept that the Court has repeatedly held that "in god we trust" is not religious (it is just a casual use of the word god and not referring to a deity).

What I don't get is what purpose is there to putting it on buildings other than to proclaim religion?  If the purpose is overt, it is an entirely different context and case.

[guido911]

I accept that the Court has repeatedly held that "in god we trust" is not religious (it is just a casual use of the word god and not referring to a deity).

What I don't get is what purpose is there to putting it on buildings other than to proclaim religion?  If the purpose is overt, it is an entirely different context and case.

I thought the posting of those words was just encouraged and not mandated. I will look at this again, particularly since I thought it had been up for a House floor vote by now.

[guido911]

Just a reminder for anyone that attempts to compare this country to Pakistan.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMnAmRa4NYw&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

This woman can throw with the best of them. Props to beating down that doosh.