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December 10, 2018, 09:14:43 pm
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Author Topic: George Kaiser and philanthropy...  (Read 9158 times)
Hoss
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I might be moving to Montana soon...


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« Reply #60 on: December 04, 2018, 05:12:59 pm »

If there is anyway you can support teacher raises through a moderate tax increase on the corporate sector like the energy (oil & gas) lets explore those options first. If push comes to shove then look at a slight increase in property and/or a special 1/16 increase on state sales taxes dedicated to teacher salaries. Oklahoma will need to raise teacher salaries by $4,000  by 2020 to get us out of the bottom five rut.

We have to get this done.  The damage has already cost the state an exodus of many talented teachers to states like Texas & California.  We need a long-term plan to support those raises that doesn't require one segment of tax papers to shoulder the burden term.

2017 rankings prior to the teacher walkout:  https://www.app.com/story/news/investigations/data/analysis/2018/04/12/teacher-salary-2017/508703002/

     45. West Virginia, $44,470
     46. Mississippi, $44,364
     47. Arizona, $44,113
     48. North Carolina, $43,897
     49. South Dakota, $40,790
     50. Oklahoma, $40,201

*1970s Oklahoma ranked 44
*1980s Oklahoma ranked 45
*1990s Oklahoma ranked 47 (vaguely recall the 3 decade ranking from memory*).

Norman Transcript:  Mar 29, 2018:  "The massive tax package, which is expected to raise about $447 million in new revenue, will allow lawmakers to give classroom teachers an average $6,100 pay increase:  https://www.normantranscript.com/news/government/senate-narrowly-approves-teacher-raise-package/article_9403013b-4f74-5f48-8ad5-6f61e5e94934.html

Oklahoma's is still among the bottom 5 states with the worst in teacher pay @$46,301; several states in that bottom five have increase teacher salaries for 2018.



almost every teacher I know is a hard 'no' on increasing teacher pay via sales taxes, which hurts the poorest Oklahomans more.  Teachers are empathetic if nothing else.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #61 on: December 04, 2018, 06:20:04 pm »

Public education is one of those necessary evils. It's an antiquated system not well suited for the modern world (from a financial sense). I am for the teacher raises and spending more on education as long as there are real results and it improves the state's reputation nationwide. All of these negative things you hear about education in Oklahoma are derived from one statistic, that we spend less per student than most states. This doesn't even necessarily say anything about the quality of our education, only that we spend less. Then you get some crazy liberal news outlets to jump on the story to try and paint a picture of "Republican stronghold of Oklahoma failing because of Republican policies and spending less than other states".

I graduated high school from Owasso. Within my graduating class, we had one of the highest amounts of national merit scholars for one school in the nation. We competed nationally (and successfully) in debate, band, choir, etc. ACT scores and college admission were well above national average. My point being that state spending per pupil doesn't really matter, at least not in a suburban setting. Rural is a different story since there is less property tax, but even then if you have a curriculum to go by and proper supplies then anyone could teach at a high school level.

Unfortunately there is a negative perception of Oklahoma due to our conservative leanings and if spending more on education will solve that (it won't) then so be it. Stitt said he's for giving teachers pay raises, but said the most recent one was the wrong way to go about it.

I don't pretend to know what the solution is. I just wish people would calm down and realize that more spending doesn't always mean better results.


Spending less than ALL states.


Public education does have problems.  Still waiting for some solution that is better.  Kinda like democracy - the worst system in the world - except for all the others.

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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #62 on: December 04, 2018, 06:21:07 pm »

I'm not quite sure how a discussion over teacher salaries registers with George Kaiser and his philanthropy but I think this has strayed well enough off topic.

But as long as we are here in a time-honored tradition of our thread drift:
 
Great new taproom!




Sweet!!

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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
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« Reply #63 on: December 04, 2018, 06:22:44 pm »

Public education is one of those necessary evils. It's an antiquated system not well suited for the modern world (from a financial sense). I am for the teacher raises and spending more on education as long as there are real results and it improves the state's reputation nationwide. All of these negative things you hear about education in Oklahoma are derived from one statistic, that we spend less per student than most states. This doesn't even necessarily say anything about the quality of our education, only that we spend less. Then you get some crazy liberal news outlets to jump on the story to try and paint a picture of "Republican stronghold of Oklahoma failing because of Republican policies and spending less than other states".

I graduated high school from Owasso. Within my graduating class, we had one of the highest amounts of national merit scholars for one school in the nation. We competed nationally (and successfully) in debate, band, choir, etc. ACT scores and college admission were well above national average. My point being that state spending per pupil doesn't really matter, at least not in a suburban setting. Rural is a different story since there is less property tax, but even then if you have a curriculum to go by and proper supplies then anyone could teach at a high school level.

Unfortunately there is a negative perception of Oklahoma due to our conservative leanings and if spending more on education will solve that (it won't) then so be it. Stitt said he's for giving teachers pay raises, but said the most recent one was the wrong way to go about it.

I don't pretend to know what the solution is. I just wish people would calm down and realize that more spending doesn't always mean better results.

I think you are missing a big component of schools.  The parents.

Many kids simply do not have anyone in their lives that could be called capable and good.  Often just the opposite.

Know someone that recently has become a teacher.  Every time I see them I hear stories like... The little girl who is starving herself to death, lips purple, almost passing out in class, etc. and the parent refusing to see there is a problem. Parents getting angry at the teacher, and even threatening if anything is said about the student. Kids who are clearly traumatized by their home environments.  Yelling and screaming parents dragging their kids away in the parking lot. A teacher yelling back to stop and the parent screaming and cussing the teacher out. Kids who miss many many days of school and the parents who don't care and get angry again if you say anything and teachers in all of these situations and more wondering if they say anything will that child suffer even more at the hands of terrible parents who they have just made angry. Kids who have lousy clothes and wear the same outfit over and over and one parent brings in some clothes to the school and tells the teacher not to let the other parent know for they will get angry.  I could go on and on about the horror stories I hear, some I can't even say on here. Its often the children from the poorest families, that need the most help and who get the least. And the cycle goes on. These kids do not grow up to be capable people, and they then have kids.  

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Laramie
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« Reply #64 on: December 05, 2018, 03:55:44 pm »

TheArtist:

That's the story of every teacher who is passionate about the profession.  They often dig deep into they own pockets for supplies and necessities needed to achieve the learning goal.  It's difficult to do on an Oklahoma teacher salary.

We all agree that something has to be done.  Oklahoma ranks in the middle of the pack (20-30) in many categories; why are we in the bottom-of-the-barrel when it come to education.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 04:05:18 pm by Laramie » Logged

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Rattle Trap
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« Reply #65 on: Today at 08:49:38 pm »

https://m.chron.com/business/article/Oklahoma-s-Future-Rests-in-the-Hands-of-Two-13453843.php

I stumbled upon this article and thought it was really interesting. Push the politics aside, it highlights what Kaiser has done for Tulsa and many of the positive things happening in the city and state as a whole.

It's unfortunate Harold hamm isn't quite as generous as Kaiser.
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