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November 24, 2017, 11:01:40 am
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Author Topic: TW & TPD Perpetuate Lighting Myths  (Read 18179 times)
patric
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« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2011, 09:32:17 pm »

OHP says the man, in his 50s, may be homeless, and was trying to cross the highway on foot.
"The initial vehicle [that hit the man] pulled over, a second car came along, hit the pedestrian again, lost control, then hit the first car."
The man was pronounced dead at the scene.


Where are the people now who said having expressway lights on would prevent these things from happening?
Do you suppose it might have even been the brightly-lighted expressway that gave this man a false sense of security with regard to deciding to cross it?



http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Man-dies-along-Interstate-244-near-Memorial/g7001w7O0U-uMrpiTq1MxA.cspx
« Last Edit: October 26, 2011, 09:33:59 pm by patric » Logged

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« Reply #31 on: October 27, 2011, 01:35:14 pm »

While I hate lights on the highway, this is most likely really called suicide. I would rather have no lights then the crap we use.

Sad a man is dead, just being realistic to the reason :/
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« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2011, 04:00:10 pm »

While I hate lights on the highway, this is most likely really called suicide. I would rather have no lights then the crap we use.

Sad a man is dead, just being realistic to the reason :/
and that is why he was hit by at 8 cars?
http://www.newson6.com/story/15885510/homeless-man-crossing-i-244-in-tulsa-struck-killed-by-multiple-cars
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patric
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« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2012, 12:02:31 pm »

I would rather have no lights then the crap we use.

Another pedestrian killed on one of the brightest-lighted parts of the expressway.

http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Police-identify-man-killed-on-BA-Expressway/U7uWL7YGS0qmHKTHd4BrGQ.cspx
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« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2012, 12:09:14 pm »

I doubt lighting one way or the other affected the outcome here.  People aren’t usually expecting to encounter a drunk staggering around the highway at 10pm.
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patric
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« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2012, 02:10:06 pm »

I doubt lighting one way or the other affected the outcome here.  People aren’t usually expecting to encounter a drunk staggering around the highway at 10pm.

I believe you are right, but I also believe that if the lights were still out, some imbecile would cite that as the cause.
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« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2013, 12:04:11 pm »

If only they would invent some sort of forward facing light that could be installed on the front of vehicles...





Listen to the spokesperson's speculation at a fatality accident:
http://www.newson6.com/story/23104368/tulsa-police

You would think the bodies just pile up where the streetlights run out.
OTOH, transitioning from a brightly-lighted area to an unlighted one can leave you visually impaired, but the problem might have more to do with how the brightly-lighted area is lit, rather than the unlit area.  If I were to speculate, I'd be looking at the glare as a culprit.

If you are going northbound, you encounter at least one bright billboard directly in your line of sight, as well as the high-mast interchange lighting (bluish lights) at 75 and Apache.  

http://goo.gl/maps/aXX0H

ODOT was using shielded (low-glare Full Cutoff) lights for a while, then went back to the high-glare non-cutoff lights (like you see on the I-44 reconstruction), so why the big step backward?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 12:26:48 pm by patric » Logged

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« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2013, 12:53:44 pm »

Coming home about 10:30 pm last week, driving down the fairly heavily lit street that leads to neighborhood at about 20 mph...thought I saw a movement, and sure enough, as I got closer, there was a guy standing literally in the middle of the road, straddling his bicycle, leaning over messing with the pedal.  No lights.  Very dark clothes.  No reflectors.  Just standing there on the dashed white line.  Ignoring everything around him.  I had a quick flash of the thought "evolution in action"....   I missed him.  Didn't even look up as I drove by.  Very, very stupid.

I think what I saw was a flash of motion from the 'backlighting' in the zone, so in this case, a good amount of lighting was very good.


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« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2013, 02:35:16 pm »

Coming home about 10:30 pm last week, driving down the fairly heavily lit street that leads to neighborhood at about 20 mph...thought I saw a movement, and sure enough, as I got closer, there was a guy standing literally in the middle of the road, straddling his bicycle, leaning over messing with the pedal.  No lights.  Very dark clothes.  No reflectors.  Just standing there on the dashed white line.  Ignoring everything around him.  I had a quick flash of the thought "evolution in action"....   I missed him.  Didn't even look up as I drove by.  Very, very stupid.

I think what I saw was a flash of motion from the 'backlighting' in the zone, so in this case, a good amount of lighting was very good.

He may have assumed that you cold see him because there was some street lighting present.  This is often a fatal mistake, but since I dont know what location you are referring to I cant make an honest comparison to the fatality on highway 75.

When a city installs street lighting (good or bad) they assume more liability than if they hadn't.  If a light or lights "failed to come on" the city can be sued if there is an accident.
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« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2013, 06:02:33 pm »

He may have assumed that you cold see him because there was some street lighting present.  This is often a fatal mistake, but since I dont know what location you are referring to I cant make an honest comparison to the fatality on highway 75.

When a city installs street lighting (good or bad) they assume more liability than if they hadn't.  If a light or lights "failed to come on" the city can be sued if there is an accident.

He was almost exactly in the middle space between two lights - darkest area possible for the street, but there was peripheral lighting around so that he could have thought he was visible.  The big problem was that he was just parked in the middle of the road, and didn't move to the side.  Even after I had passed him and continued about 1/4 mile further on.  I could see his "shadow" in the backlight behind him....
 
Crazy.
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« Reply #40 on: August 12, 2013, 07:07:08 pm »

If I recall right, Oklahoma changed the law regarding bicycle lighting perhaps 6 or 8 years ago. Bicycles are not required to have lights on streets with a 25 mph limit or less. I don't remember if reflectors are required on such streets. Our lawmakers reasoned that neighborhood traffic was limited  and the reduced speed was sufficient for safety. I disagreed and the OBC formally objected to the change. Real bicyclists, of course, were ignored.
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patric
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« Reply #41 on: August 14, 2013, 10:03:30 am »

He was almost exactly in the middle space between two lights - darkest area possible for the street, but there was peripheral lighting around so that he could have thought he was visible.  The big problem was that he was just parked in the middle of the road, and didn't move to the side.  Even after I had passed him and continued about 1/4 mile further on.  I could see his "shadow" in the backlight behind him....

You are describing "negative contrast"

http://www.visualexpert.com/Resources/pedestrian.html

Along the same lines, some people think that streetlights are necessary to see painted lines on the road, which is sometimes true, but not for the reason they believe.   Retro-reflective markings (like lines or reflective signs) reflect light back from the direction it came.  When light from a streetlight intersects with a painted line on the road, you might see the line by it's lack of reflectivity as compared to the shiny road surface.  That's also negative contrast.  

Negative contrast is figured in to a properly designed streetlight system, and is most effective if the streetlights are shielded so that the eye is not hampered by the disabling glare of an unshielded source.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 10:05:24 am by patric » Logged

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« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2013, 01:27:16 pm »

You are describing "negative contrast"

http://www.visualexpert.com/Resources/pedestrian.html

Along the same lines, some people think that streetlights are necessary to see painted lines on the road, which is sometimes true, but not for the reason they believe.   Retro-reflective markings (like lines or reflective signs) reflect light back from the direction it came.  When light from a streetlight intersects with a painted line on the road, you might see the line by it's lack of reflectivity as compared to the shiny road surface.  That's also negative contrast.  

Negative contrast is figured in to a properly designed streetlight system, and is most effective if the streetlights are shielded so that the eye is not hampered by the disabling glare of an unshielded source.

The view transitioned from photo 1 to photo 2, then back as I passed.  And both those pictures are taken with the "movie magic effect" of having the streets wet.  These were dry, reducing that line of light to a dim blur - more realistic most of the time.

The lights also did not line up nicely like in photo 1.  One light was to the left (400 feet or so away), with a second a couple hundred feet further, on the right.  If I get the chance, I may go by there again this week and if so, will try to take a picture.

Painted lines - brings us to another horrible situation in Tulsa (and many of the surrounding towns) - lack of adequate line maintenance.  It is pathetic that the lines are so terribly worn down around town, and no maintenance being done.


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« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2013, 01:05:25 pm »

The view transitioned from photo 1 to photo 2, then back as I passed.  And both those pictures are taken with the "movie magic effect" of having the streets wet.  These were dry, reducing that line of light to a dim blur - more realistic most of the time.

The lights also did not line up nicely like in photo 1.  One light was to the left (400 feet or so away), with a second a couple hundred feet further, on the right.  If I get the chance, I may go by there again this week and if so, will try to take a picture.

Painted lines - brings us to another horrible situation in Tulsa (and many of the surrounding towns) - lack of adequate line maintenance.  It is pathetic that the lines are so terribly worn down around town, and no maintenance being done.


The lines in most places haven't touched in many areas in and around Tulsa since they were scraped off during the double blizzard winter of 2011-2012.

Until they began demolition of the 244 bridge, those lines were there but impossible to see if it was raining and that was the black/white style and street lights. I thought I was going blind and asked my kids if they could see the lines. Their answer? "Dad, there aren't any lines on this part of the street."
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« Reply #44 on: October 04, 2013, 01:10:46 pm »

If you want a real-life example of how bad lighting makes it HARDER to see pedestrians, just drive around TU on a busy night when students are out and about.  The super-bright acorn lights shine light in all directions except down.  With the overly bright lights shining in your eyes, it's almost impossible to see people walking on sidewalks or crossing streets because they are in the "shadows" of the light source. You eyes are essentially blinded to everything except the overly bright light source.  It's shocking.  Pedestrians seemingly pop out of nowhere...despite all the lights that are  supposedly there for student safety.  (Or just b/c the TU trustees think acorn lights look pretty in the daytime...)

It's similar to the feeling you get when you're walking on a sidewalk or street facing traffic at night.  When car headlights shine in your eyes, you suddenly can't see the pavement in front of your feet. 
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