How to Protect Yourself From Obamacare

[heironymouspasparagus]

That will guarantee the company gets to keep their best and brightest.  Just go somewhere else.  Oh, wait...tough to do when there is no competition left, huh??

[Gaspar]

That will guarantee the company gets to keep their best and brightest.  Just go somewhere else.  Oh, wait...tough to do when there is no competition left, huh??

I dont choose my job based on benefits. 

Benifits used to be just that, but then everyone in the workforce began to feel entitled to them.  Now they are simply another step closer to enslaving a workforce.  It's sad that today, some people won't leave a low paying job simply because of benefits.  We've arrested the development of many in our workforce by morphing them into dependents rather than professionals, and naturally that appeals to power at all levels.

Now we have a huge portion of our population demanding their chains!

[we vs us]

I dont choose my job based on benefits. 

Benifits used to be just that, but then everyone in the workforce began to feel entitled to them.  Now they are simply another step closer to enslaving a workforce.  It's sad that today, some people won't leave a low paying job simply because of benefits.  We've arrested the development of many in our workforce by morphing them into dependents rather than professionals, and naturally that appeals to power at all levels.

Now we have a huge portion of our population demanding their chains!

Or . . . you could see them as the only compensation gains that workers have made over the last couple of decades.  Considering that, for all intents and purposes, salaries themselves were flat.

[Gaspar]

Or . . . you could see them as the only compensation gains that workers have made over the last couple of decades.  Considering that, for all intents and purposes, salaries themselves were flat.

Ahh!  But look at what's happened. . . these "compensation gains" have gotten more and more expensive and companies are now intent on abandoning them.  Unfortunately the people have been conditioned to view themselves as entitled, so they immediately turn to government and demand "compensation gains."

Of course politicians more than happy to provide any service that delivers guaranteed voters.  Such services make it easier for politicians to wield power. 

When you control the health of the people, you don't have as much to fear from the will of the people!

[heironymouspasparagus]

Salaries are not flat for most people.  They are declining in real terms.

Gaspar,
You don't factor in benefits?  Vacation, health insurance, disability, or 401k ??  I find that hard to believe, but if so, the implication is that you are dismissing about 25 to 30% of the pay package.

??

[we vs us]

Ahh!  But look at what's happened. . . these "compensation gains" have gotten more and more expensive and companies are now intent on abandoning them.  Unfortunately the people have been conditioned to view themselves as entitled, so they immediately turn to government and demand "compensation gains."

Of course politicians more than happy to provide any service that delivers guaranteed voters.  Such services make it easier for politicians to wield power. 

When you control the health of the people, you don't have as much to fear from the will of the people!

So you'd rather that all employees be compensated solely in cash, then?  At all times?  So things like 401ks, or meal vouchers, or vacation days or . . . anything other than cash dilutes the compensation system?

[Gaspar]

So you'd rather that all employees be compensated solely in cash, then?  At all times?  So things like 401ks, or meal vouchers, or vacation days or . . . anything other than cash dilutes the compensation system?

Yes!  Tis the root of the problem!

If you compensate all workers/employees/executives with cash only, then it becomes their responsibility to shop for healthcare, and shop for retirement plans.

Instead of a handful of monster providers who can dictate price because they low-ball the employers based on volume, you would get hundreds of companies all competing for your health insurance, and your investment portfolio, and your dental, and your vision.

You would get competition that we lack.  This drives prices down and increases efficiency.  People would also have the ability to choose quality over quantity or vise versa.

Man, We vs us, you've just been setting them up for me!  Thanks!

[Townsend]

Man, We vs us, you've just been setting them up for me!  Thanks!

Woo, I practically heard all those eyes rolling.

[Gaspar]

Woo, I practically heard all those eyes rolling.

I thought you didn't pay any attention to my posts.  Please continue.

[Teatownclown]

Economic Crisis Putting More Americans in Peril, Say Nurses

http://www.thewashingtoncurrent.com/2011/06/economic-crisis-putting-more-americans.html

"The nurses are linking enduring economic hardship to broad declines in health and living standards for substantial segments of the U.S. population. Low wages, unemployment, hunger, substandard housing and declining access to education and health are cited by the RNs as the source of serious harm to communities across the nation."

Those mentioned have no time or resources for participating in TNF.... is it any wonder this site only hears from the right(eous)?

BTW, nurses do it until you feel better....

[Teatownclown]

My annual blood work is %50 higher than last year. WOW.

My Mom's supplemental insurance plan premium is up %50.

The Affordable Care Act does not kick in until 2014. But, of course, right wingers never let facts get in the way of their pro-corporate, anti-American, anti-democratic agenda. The private un-socialized system has utterly failed, which flies in the face of right-wing corporatist dogma that the "free market" is perfect and only private industry, not the government, is capable of solving problems. The private insurance industry has had at least since it killed Hillarycare in the 1990s to solve this crisis. Instead, it has gotten much worse, while, of course, their profits have gone through the roof.

They could solve the problem TOMORROW if they wanted to. All they'd after to do is lower premiums so that they were affordable for people who make $24,000 a year. Yes, they'd lose some high end profit -- and their corporate earnings would drop a billion or two -- but they'd have 50 million new customers.  Unfortunately the House, Senate, and White House are full of Republicans, although half of them lie and call themselves Democrats (Borem). Is ObamaCare a Republican plan to steal a trillion dollars from working Americans for the insurance mafia?

[Conan71]

My annual blood work is %50 higher than last year. WOW.

My Mom's supplemental insurance plan premium is up %50.

The Affordable Care Act does not kick in until 2014. But, of course, right wingers never let facts get in the way of their pro-corporate, anti-American, anti-democratic agenda. The private un-socialized system has utterly failed, which flies in the face of right-wing corporatist dogma that the "free market" is perfect and only private industry, not the government, is capable of solving problems. The private insurance industry has had at least since it killed Hillarycare in the 1990s to solve this crisis. Instead, it has gotten much worse, while, of course, their profits have gone through the roof.

They could solve the problem TOMORROW if they wanted to. All they'd after to do is lower premiums so that they were affordable for people who make $24,000 a year. Yes, they'd lose some high end profit -- and their corporate earnings would drop a billion or two -- but they'd have 50 million new customers.  Unfortunately the House, Senate, and White House are full of Republicans, although half of them lie and call themselves Democrats (Borem). Is ObamaCare a Republican plan to steal a trillion dollars from working Americans for the insurance mafia?

Does your Mom buy her supplemental insurance via AARP?  They were a major lobbyist for Obamacare.

I think I get your point, and one would like to think that more people would buy their own insurance voluntarily if the premiums were cheaper.  Problem is, many people earning $24K per year either are quite young and think they are in such great health, insurance is a waste of money, or if they are older, they may have other financial priorities they place ahead of having health insurance.

Not sure where your rant on Republicans is going.  It's the ruling class.  The two party system is nothing but a shell game while each "party" takes turns fleecing the treasury.

[Gaspar]

Looks like happy hour has arrived early at this thread too.

I feel your pain, Teatown, but there has been very little "free-market" involved in medical insurance in a loooong time.

Your insurer has very little competition to worry about.  He is one of a handful of mammoth companies licensed to operate in this state, and hand picked by your employer for his rates alone.  Sure there are hundreds of insurance providers that would love to compete for your business but that's against federal and state regulations.

The prices you see on your bill are likely 200% inflated.  yYu will probably notice that the insurance company only pays a percentage of the "presented actual cost" because they have negotiated that based on inflated numbers.  Even so, those numbers are a function of losses to be recouped from Medicare and Medicade patients.

A pair of latex gloves at the hospital is going to run you about $5, and an alcohol swab will cost over a buck because your paid visit is a function of all of the unpaid visits by people who have no intension of paying their bills.  

Don't blame free-market forces for regulated and subsidized failure!  

[heironymouspasparagus]

Gaspar,
You said it in the second line, then contradicted in the last.

You are close to right - free market forces have failed, due to sellout by Congress step by step, right down the line.
Because there ARE NO free market forces.  There are only the forces of monopolism, price-fixing, and collusion.  Right down the line.
And that means there is NO capitalism left in that market, but not because of government action.  It IS because of government inaction.

Sounds a lot like big oil, huh?

[Gaspar]

Gaspar,
There are only the forces of monopolism, price-fixing, and collusion.  Right down the line.
And that means there is NO capitalism left in that market, but not because of government action.  It IS because of government inaction.

Sounds a lot like big oil, huh?

You must understand that regulation IS collusion, just with a government stamp on it.  As an unnatural market force, it causes companies to band together, organize, and unify rather than compete.  Regulation ALLWAYS encourages collusion and "price protections."

You hit the nail on the head, just with the wrong end of the hammer!

In free markets, monopoly is impossible.

Manufacturing and commercial monopolies owe their origin not to a tendency imminent in a capitalist economy but to governmental interventionist policy directed against free trade and laissez faire. – Ludwig Mises

Every coercive monopoly was created by government intervention into the economy: by special privileges, such as franchises or subsidies, which closed the entry of competitors into a given field, by legislative action. – Ayn Rand