TMAPC Public Hearing - PlaniTulsa

[Rico]

Due to his epiphany a few years ago (and being declared heretic by his church).  I happen to agree with him to the extent of what little I have heard about his Gospel of Inclusion.  Most of Tulsa isn't quite as "understanding".

New Thought movement sounds like there is a lot of Plato involved....



 

Friendly Bear? if that is you..... You need to head directly for your meds.

[Hoss]

Friendly Bear? if that is you..... You need to head directly for your meds.

Too liberal minded.  If it is, he's been brainwashed.  FB posts over at the World as Webmeister (or at least last I checked he was still allowed there).

[heironymouspasparagus]

Friendly Bear??  Not me.  There is only one other fake name I use and it is inspired by Metallica.  And never seen here.  Besides, do I seem that friendly?  Will have to work on that a little harder, I guess.

Liberal??  Hmmm...well, I guess that depends.  You all have heard my thoughts on DUI, DWI, etc.  Goes hand in hand with my absolute belief in the death penalty (except in Texas - they have no self control - killing the innocent with equal enthusiasm as the guilty.) 

And I didn't wait until last year to start bitching about the deficit, out of control federal spending, and federal debt - if you knew me, you would have been sick to death of hearing about it for at least the last 40 years.  Yes, since at least 1970.  And as a very proud Lifetime Member of the NRA, who will NEVER resign my membership like George H.W. Bush did,...well, I guess if all that makes me a liberal, so be it.

I have set right here in the middle where I always was and have watched the country swing to the far left, then back to the far right, and then kind of shudder a couple times and move a little bit toward the middle.  I am a Moderate Wing Reactionary Extremist (WMRE).  As opposed to Left Wing Reactionary Extremist (LWRE).  Or Right Wing Reactionary Extremist (RWRE).

Meds??  Because I like what I have heard about Carlton Pearson??  Or because you don't like Plato??
Have never had the chance to go to one of his services.  May have to try that sometime. 

Are you an anti-fan of his?  (That would be what I was alluding to when mentioning Tulsa as not quite so understanding.)

[Dana431]

Meeting today to further discuss Tulsa's new comprehensive plan

By KEVIN CANFIELD World Staff Writer
Published: 4/14/2010  3:27 AM
Last Modified: 4/14/2010  7:42 AM

The Tulsa Metropolitan Area Planning Commission will meet today to continue discussing possible changes to the final draft of the city’s new comprehensive plan.

The plan provides guidelines for the city’s physical development. It was completed Jan. 12. Since then, the city has taken comments on the plan online and the Planning Commission has held two public hearings.

The commission is now considering what changes to made to the final draft.

Commissioners hope to have those modifications in place and a clean version of the plan available to residents well in advance of April 28, the date they have set to continue public discussion of the plan.

However, that date could change if the Planning Commission needs more time to do its work.

Wednesday’ meeting is at 1:30 p.m. at the City Council Committee Room on the fourth floor of City Hall.

The public is invited to attend, but no public comments will be taken.
By KEVIN CANFIELD World Staff Writer

Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20100414_11_0_TheTul234230



Anybody going to meeting today?  I'd love to go but I have a job.

[Rico]

that's exactly what they are hoping for....don't worry the fix is already in, so showing up wouldn't matter.

That's what I like about you inteller you are realistic.

But don't tell Dana it doesn't matter. For all you know they have a really good real estate attorney and it can be whatever they want it to be.

[heironymouspasparagus]

And from all the noise, shrill screeching and dubious propaganda, I thought Vision 2025 was the be-all and end-all of Tulsa planning.  And supposed to last until 2025.

So that previous "Tulsa's new comprehensive plan" is now supplanted by the latest "Tulsa's new comprehensive plan"??

[godboko71]

And from all the noise, shrill screeching and dubious propaganda, I thought Vision 2025 was the be-all and end-all of Tulsa planning.  And supposed to last until 2025.

So that previous "Tulsa's new comprehensive plan" is now supplanted by the latest "Tulsa's new comprehensive plan"??

Vision 2025 was a Tulsa County Tax. PlaniTulsa is an update to a decades old comprehensive plan for the City of Tulsa.

[heironymouspasparagus]

The merging of Tulsa with Tulsa is way overdue.  Get rid of Tulsa county government and let City of Tulsa be it.  Talk about some efficiencies of scale.  Tulsa County is one of those anachronistic leftovers from the age of dinosaurs...or at least the '60s.

Given the level of "mis-pent resources" by county government throughout the state, we probably should get rid of 77 of them.

[Conan71]

The merging of Tulsa with Tulsa is way overdue.  Get rid of Tulsa county government and let City of Tulsa be it.  Talk about some efficiencies of scale.  Tulsa County is one of those anachronistic leftovers from the age of dinosaurs...or at least the '60s.

Given the level of "mis-pent resources" by county government throughout the state, we probably should get rid of 77 of them.

COT can't seem to balance it's budget and has a penchant for over-spending.

The county doesn't seem to have quite as much an issue with that based on recent years financials.  If anything, I'd reverse it...

[heironymouspasparagus]

Ok.  Either way, avoid the duplication of efforts.

[PonderInc]

Come on Conan... The cot could do just fine if they had a reliable source of income like the county does (property taxes in addition to sales taxes).    I think if we could get our share of sales taxes from Internet sales that would solve it too.  As it is, the city has to rely totally on ever decreasing sales taxes and we have to spend it all on sprawling infrastructure (potholes) and cops.

But let's not hijack this thread.

Here's an amusing tidbit from today's TMAPC mtg:

After one commissioner was reminding everyone about the vast public input that went into planitulsa, John Dix scoffed at "a few hundred people with clickers" (I'm paraphrasing but he said something like that).  Then he boldly proclaimed, " I represent 400,000 people."

I know his term is already expired.  Perhaps he could be replaced with someone who isn't delusional?    

[TheArtist]

And from all the noise, shrill screeching and dubious propaganda, I thought Vision 2025 was the be-all and end-all of Tulsa planning.  And supposed to last until 2025.

So that previous "Tulsa's new comprehensive plan" is now supplanted by the latest "Tulsa's new comprehensive plan"??

Vision 2025 was in no way a comprehensive plan and didnt look , walk, or talk anything like one.  Do you know what a comprehensive plan is and does?

[Conan71]

Come on Conan... The cot could do just fine if they had a reliable source of income like the county does (property taxes in addition to sales taxes).    I think if we could get our share of sales taxes from Internet sales that would solve it too.  As it is, the city has to rely totally on ever decreasing sales taxes and we have to spend it all on sprawling infrastructure (potholes) and cops.

But let's not hijack this thread.

Here's an amusing tidbit from today's TMAPC mtg:

After one commissioner was reminding everyone about the vast public input that went into planitulsa, John Dix scoffed at "a few hundred people with clickers" (I'm paraphrasing but he said something like that).  Then he boldly proclaimed, " I represent 400,000 people."

I know his term is already expired.  Perhaps he could be replaced with someone who isn't delusional?    

If if'ns & buts were candy & nuts...it'd be Christmas every day. 

With all due respect, let's face it, internet sales tax collection is a pipe dream.  I'm aware that on-line retailers like Target, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, etc. who have brick and mortar stores in the area do collect sales tax when you purchase an item on line and they ship it to your residence.  However, sellers on eBay and other out of state mail order houses are not compelled to report nor pay sales tax to OTC, unless an eBay seller resides in Oklahoma and has an OTC sales tax permit.  It falls on the taxpayer to properly calculate and pay their use tax for these purchases.  Short of auditing every citizen every year, there is simply no mechanism (nor manpower) in place to make sure use taxes are properly reported and paid.

We spend money maintaining infrastructure and improvements so people can drive out to Million Dollar Elm, Hard Rock, and River Spirit to gamble away discretionary income, eat sales tax-free meals, and purchase sales-tax free items in their gift shops.

COT has also squandered one opportunity after another for new retail development along the Arkansas River.  The only concerted effort they ever made toward this was backing a county initiative to jack up, get this, sales tax rates.  Retail development could have been done for years without asking tax payers to pony up for more than some simple infrastructure improvements, but there's been a mind block at COT that other towns haven't seemed to had much trouble with.  How much revenue is Jenks getting from Riverwalk Crossing these days?

Time to face that COT needs other forms of revenue streams aside from sales tax and lose it's exclusive dependence on sales tax, or get some legislators in OKC who will fight a lot harder to get more of the revenue pie.

Maybe it's time for the city to cede some duties to the county or contract out certain services to save on payroll and retirement costs.

[waterboy]

If if'ns & buts were candy & nuts...it'd be Christmas every day. 

With all due respect, let's face it, internet sales tax collection is a pipe dream.  I'm aware that on-line retailers like Target, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, etc. who have brick and mortar stores in the area do collect sales tax when you purchase an item on line and they ship it to your residence.  However, sellers on eBay and other out of state mail order houses are not compelled to report nor pay sales tax to OTC, unless an eBay seller resides in Oklahoma and has an OTC sales tax permit.  It falls on the taxpayer to properly calculate and pay their use tax for these purchases.  Short of auditing every citizen every year, there is simply no mechanism (nor manpower) in place to make sure use taxes are properly reported and paid.

We spend money maintaining infrastructure and improvements so people can drive out to Million Dollar Elm, Hard Rock, and River Spirit to gamble away discretionary income, eat sales tax-free meals, and purchase sales-tax free items in their gift shops.

COT has also squandered one opportunity after another for new retail development along the Arkansas River.  The only concerted effort they ever made toward this was backing a county initiative to jack up, get this, sales tax rates.  Retail development could have been done for years without asking tax payers to pony up for more than some simple infrastructure improvements, but there's been a mind block at COT that other towns haven't seemed to had much trouble with.  How much revenue is Jenks getting from Riverwalk Crossing these days?

Time to face that COT needs other forms of revenue streams aside from sales tax and lose it's exclusive dependence on sales tax, or get some legislators in OKC who will fight a lot harder to get more of the revenue pie.

Maybe it's time for the city to cede some duties to the county or contract out certain services to save on payroll and retirement costs.

Just when i think you're a lost cause, you make some sense.

There is much duplication between the two entities but it shouldn't all default to the county just because they can meet their budgets. They do that by paying their employees with such low pay they have to apply for welfare to make ends meet.

You know my pet peeve is two, count them, two Parks Departments. RPA has worked hard to justify their existence and are friendlier with the county but don't expect them to have the city's interest at heart.

[PonderInc]

Back to the topic at hand:

Did y'all see that Bumgarner and St. Johns and Hilcrest want to re-write the Areas of Stability map to suit their desires?  (Oh, by the way, that means they want to destroy more of the historic neighborhoods that surround them...for more parking, among other things.)

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20100415_16_A9_Hillcr26149

Yorktown and Swan Lake neighborhoods are both listed on the National Register of Historic Places.  They both have HP zoning overlays.  And they're both considered "areas of stability" not "areas of change."

As usual, the hospitals and developers have been buying up properties on the "fringes" of the historic neighborhood.  (Ever notice how today's "heart" becomes tomorrow's "fringe" as the fringe keeps creeping inward, year by year, demolition by demolition?)

For the thousands of you who attended the PLANiTULSA workshops: what was the first thing you did to your maps?  Remember?  You drew a line around areas that should not change.  This included historic districts as well as healthy neighborhoods.  Let's not forget that concept.