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October 23, 2018, 09:08:23 pm
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Author Topic: North Tulsa to Get Grocery Store  (Read 28143 times)
DTowner
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« Reply #45 on: March 17, 2010, 08:29:23 am »

If a grocery store operated by an owner with a proven record of success and with access to grant funds cannot make it work in this location, it will be a long long time before north Tulsa gets another grocery store (or other other types of retail, for that matter).
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Cats Cats Cats
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« Reply #46 on: March 17, 2010, 08:33:13 am »

Why blow through 4 years of capital hoping that people in the area that were complaining about not having a place to shop, then getting a place to shop will start spending more of their money there?
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rwarn17588
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« Reply #47 on: March 17, 2010, 09:05:02 am »

One of the things that's being overlooked is that the population in north Tulsa is declining fast. There are elementary schools up there that barely have 200 kids. In a volume business, it's hard to make money when your base is shrinking.
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swake
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« Reply #48 on: March 17, 2010, 09:30:54 am »

One of the things that's being overlooked is that the population in north Tulsa is declining fast. There are elementary schools up there that barely have 200 kids. In a volume business, it's hard to make money when your base is shrinking.

I want the store to work, it's good for the area. I went to BTW and the area around that store has improved greatly and it's good to see. But, it's a Roscoe Turner created myth that there were no grocery stores in North Tulsa. There are five or six along Admiral including a Walmart Supercenter out east. There's one at 62nd St N and Peoria and another at Pine and Lewis.  There just aren't as many as there used to be, but like Rwarn said, there also just aren't as many people.

Now, I also wonder if part of it is that a lot of the stores along Admiral are Hispanic grocery stores. Maybe those don't count to Roscoe? But if you don't count Hispanics as part of your north Tulsa population then the population there is really far down. The area of North Tulsa between Admiral and Pine used to be almost entirely black, now it's mostly Hispanic.

Is the former Albertson's also hurt by being owned by the owner of some of those Hispanic grocery stores and not by someone of the traditional black community?
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Conan71
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« Reply #49 on: March 17, 2010, 10:29:32 am »

Swake, thanks for the citation. 

"He said he'll re-evaluate the performance of the long-awaited grocery store in four to six months and decide whether it's worth keeping open.

The 57,000-square-foot store is one of the largest in the city and has about 50 employees.

City leaders had worked for two years to find a tenant for the building, and Perez received $2.2 million in Community Block Development Grant funds to put a grocery store at the site.

The space had been empty since 2007, when Albertson's pulled its stores from the area.

"Gateway Market, because of its location, has suffered perception problems since the project was announced. Those only worsened when a man robbed the supermarket at gunpoint Feb. 6.

Since the robbery, Perez said, the store has added security, but business has continued to decline.

"We had to deal with the robbery and people being afraid of people coming into the store," he said. "But business hasn't gotten any better since then."

Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20100317_11_A9_Gatewa320612

Here's a few issues I take with the story as written and a few random thoughts:

The World seems to be banking on this store collapsing.  Perez says he will review performance in four to six months.  The article seems to report with glee near the top of the story that the store may close within months as if the closing is certain and imminent.  That sure as hell doesn't help the image of the store if people think it's going to fail.

Any idea what all the $2.2 mil block grant went toward?  Why wasn't there a year of operating capital included in first year funding and the business plan?  What happens on the re-payment plan should the project go tits up?  As I recall there was some sort of repayment expected toward TEDC or one of the economic development agencies.

I call BS on the armed robbery being any sort of a problem.  An employee was killed by a gunman during an armed robbery at the former Albertson's at 41st & Peoria about ten years ago and there have been countless armed robberies of various grocery stores and people robbed in parking lots and yet those stores remain robust and solvent.

Maybe, as other posters suggested, this store over-serves the area and it was nothing more than a perception by some that north Tulsa was being under-served in the grocery market.
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
rwarn17588
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« Reply #50 on: March 17, 2010, 12:08:15 pm »


Now, I also wonder if part of it is that a lot of the stores along Admiral are Hispanic grocery stores. Maybe those don't count to Roscoe? But if you don't count Hispanics as part of your north Tulsa population then the population there is really far down. The area of North Tulsa between Admiral and Pine used to be almost entirely black, now it's mostly Hispanic.

Is the former Albertson's also hurt by being owned by the owner of some of those Hispanic grocery stores and not by someone of the traditional black community?

I've wondered that myself. Maybe someone should ask Roscoe, but you'd better have your BS meter turned on first.
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DTowner
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« Reply #51 on: March 17, 2010, 12:34:10 pm »

I did not read the Tulsa World as taking glee in the potential failure of the Gateway Market.  They were sensationalizing a story on what has been a high profile issue.  Whether he initiated the story or it was initiated by the paper, Perez seems to be shooting a pretty clear shot across the bow of Tulsa leaders generally and north Tulsa leaders specifically about his unhappiness with the performance of this store.  If the Gateway Market fails, it will kill any effort to attract other retail to north Tulsa.  If a store located in an essentially new building with $2.2 million in grant money cannot make it selling something as basic as food to an allegedly underserved population, then what kind of retail can make it in north Tulsa?
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dbacks fan
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« Reply #52 on: March 17, 2010, 01:16:21 pm »

I've wondered that myself. Maybe someone should ask Roscoe, but you'd better have your BS meter turned on first.

<---  One BS meter
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Conan71
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« Reply #53 on: March 17, 2010, 01:20:57 pm »

I did not read the Tulsa World as taking glee in the potential failure of the Gateway Market.  They were sensationalizing a story on what has been a high profile issue.  Whether he initiated the story or it was initiated by the paper, Perez seems to be shooting a pretty clear shot across the bow of Tulsa leaders generally and north Tulsa leaders specifically about his unhappiness with the performance of this store.  If the Gateway Market fails, it will kill any effort to attract other retail to north Tulsa.  If a store located in an essentially new building with $2.2 million in grant money cannot make it selling something as basic as food to an allegedly underserved population, then what kind of retail can make it in north Tulsa?

And again, why is it companies like Warehouse Market, which thrives in lower income areas, snubbed this location for two years?  They would have been a logical fit, yet they never showed one iota of interest.

Perhaps I overstated the "with glee" part, but entering the story at the top with a prediction of failure within months strikes a very negative connotation with the reader very early in the story.
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Hoss
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« Reply #54 on: March 17, 2010, 01:30:58 pm »

And again, why is it companies like Warehouse Market, which thrives in lower income areas, snubbed this location for two years?  They would have been a logical fit, yet they never showed one iota of interest.

Perhaps I overstated the "with glee" part, but entering the story at the top with a prediction of failure within months strikes a very negative connotation with the reader very early in the story.

I'm wondering if WHM feels like their store at King St and Sheridan IS in North Tulsa.  Technically, sure it is, but all their stores are much smaller in footprint (even the newer one at 11th/Garnett) than 57000 sq feet.  I'd have to estimate that the one at 11th/Garnett is closer to about 25000, but I'm not an expert on guesstimation of floor area.
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Conan71
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« Reply #55 on: March 17, 2010, 01:32:26 pm »

I'm wondering if WHM feels like their store at King St and Sheridan IS in North Tulsa.  Technically, sure it is, but all their stores are much smaller in footprint (even the newer one at 11th/Garnett) than 57000 sq feet.  I'd have to estimate that the one at 11th/Garnett is closer to about 25000, but I'm not an expert on guesstimation of floor area.

No reason they couldn't have built out 1/2 the space and left it up to the landlord to lease the other 1/2.
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
waterboy
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« Reply #56 on: March 17, 2010, 01:32:48 pm »

Speaking of BS, lets keep things real here. Myths indeed. Those stores on Admiral and out east are not "north side" stores. Northsiders routinely bypassed them in favor of 15th & Lewis and Brookside grocery stores. They also ignored the store at Gilcrease and Edison which truly is north side. Whether it was because of the condition of the stores or the racial status of their shoppers is unclear, though I suspect many folks between Admiral and 21st (Southsiders by your designation Swake) also ignored those stores for the same reasons.

Then, comparing a robbery in a neighborhood reputed to be crime ridden vs a Brookside grocery store surrounded by upscale dense housing is pure bs.

Roscoe et al may be BS spin meisters, but you guys are in the race too.

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Hoss
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« Reply #57 on: March 17, 2010, 01:38:48 pm »

Speaking of BS, lets keep things real here. Myths indeed. Those stores on Admiral and out east are not "north side" stores. Northsiders routinely bypassed them in favor of 15th & Lewis and Brookside grocery stores. They also ignored the store at Gilcrease and Edison which truly is north side. Whether it was because of the condition of the stores or the racial status of their shoppers is unclear, though I suspect many folks between Admiral and 21st (Southsiders by your designation Swake) also ignored those stores for the same reasons.

Then, comparing a robbery in a neighborhood reputed to be crime ridden vs a Brookside grocery store surrounded by upscale dense housing is pure bs.

Roscoe et al may be BS spin meisters, but you guys are in the race too.



Disagree with you about Gilcrease/Edison.  I lived out that way from age 18 to 20 and regularly visited and helped my grandmother (who lives right there) with shopping and the like since then.  That shopping center when it housed Homeland was just fine at the time.  The WHM on 49th West was cutting into their business because Homelands were pricing themselves out of existence.  I only shopped there in an emergency and got to where I was shopping more at WHM.  I liked it that I was buying local (sort of; at least regional).  You could almost get some groceries cheaper at the Mays Drug Store next door to them.
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Libertarianism is a system of beliefs for people who think adolescence is the epitome of human achievement.

Global warming isn't real because it was cold today.  Also great news: world famine is over because I just ate - Stephen Colbert.

Somebody find Guido an ambulance to chase...
dbacks fan
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« Reply #58 on: March 17, 2010, 01:48:28 pm »

Just my take, after reading the articles and then sifting through the comments, the thing that came out most was their prices, and product selection. Apparently no Wonder Bread, Kraft, Pepsi, and other American brands was the main criticism, too many Hispanic brands (the first one that claims I'm racist get's a pop knot on the head!!! read the comments after the article) and others were commenting on the fact that some items were almost twice the price at WHM and SaveALot. Also the WHM at 62nd and North Peoria is in Turley not North Tulsa, and yes it is a low income area I think it's a world away from Pine and Peoria.
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custosnox
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« Reply #59 on: March 17, 2010, 02:57:43 pm »

Just my take, after reading the articles and then sifting through the comments, the thing that came out most was their prices, and product selection. Apparently no Wonder Bread, Kraft, Pepsi, and other American brands was the main criticism, too many Hispanic brands (the first one that claims I'm racist get's a pop knot on the head!!! read the comments after the article) and others were commenting on the fact that some items were almost twice the price at WHM and SaveALot. Also the WHM at 62nd and North Peoria is in Turley not North Tulsa, and yes it is a low income area I think it's a world away from Pine and Peoria.
RACIST!!! oh, sorry, couldn't help it.  Anyhow, the real comment I was going to make is that Turley isn't a township.  While outside of the Tulsa city limits, it is still in Tulsa county.  So spliting hairs, but it's not far from the real crime ridden area's of North Tulsa (places that even I worry about going into). 
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