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August 23, 2019, 07:30:35 pm
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Author Topic: Looks like the OHP takes it on the chin yet again.  (Read 38419 times)
Hoss
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« Reply #135 on: May 08, 2018, 12:51:35 pm »

Probably right in there somewhere. 

Glad to see you hold the LEOs so accountable.   Roll Eyes
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TeeDub
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« Reply #136 on: May 08, 2018, 02:11:54 pm »


They aren't accountable.    You and I are accountable for their mistakes when we have to pay out millions in settlements. 

That is what happens when you task them with apprehending criminals, you have to accept the consequences...   (Or change the policies.)
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Hoss
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« Reply #137 on: May 08, 2018, 02:32:46 pm »

They aren't accountable.    You and I are accountable for their mistakes when we have to pay out millions in settlements. 

That is what happens when you task them with apprehending criminals, you have to accept the consequences...   (Or change the policies.)

Did you fall down from the spinning?  Holy cow.
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Libertarianism is a system of beliefs for people who think adolescence is the epitome of human achievement.

Global warming isn't real because it was cold today.  Also great news: world famine is over because I just ate - Stephen Colbert.

Somebody find Guido an ambulance to chase...
TeeDub
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« Reply #138 on: May 08, 2018, 02:40:14 pm »


No?  How do you see it?   
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #139 on: May 09, 2018, 07:41:35 am »

Did you fall down from the spinning?  Holy cow.


Two a quarter unjustifiably killed is ok with TeeDub... just wonder how he would feel if those two were his closest family?   Father, mother, brothers, sister, etc.  After all, it's "only" two per quarter...!!

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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
TeeDub
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« Reply #140 on: May 09, 2018, 07:54:09 am »


Two a quarter unjustifiably killed is ok with TeeDub... just wonder how he would feel if those two were his closest family?   Father, mother, brothers, sister, etc.  After all, it's "only" two per quarter...!!



Two per quarter?   I thought it was two innocent people in 14 months?
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #141 on: May 09, 2018, 08:00:43 am »

Two per quarter?   I thought it was two innocent people in 14 months?


Ooops...sorry!  I mis-remembered the number when I typed!


Still not good. 

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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
TeeDub
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« Reply #142 on: May 09, 2018, 08:14:49 am »


Ooops...sorry!  I mis-remembered the number when I typed!

Still not good. 

Obviously zero would be better, but you can't just let criminals go if they should happen to run.   (Or can you?)   

We really don't have any basis to judge without knowing things like how many pursuits were there during that time frame, how many were called off due to dangerous conditions, etc....     This was a flame-bait article that was just meant to start trolls without any real facts or points for discussion.
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patric
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« Reply #143 on: May 09, 2018, 09:49:07 am »


We really don't have any basis to judge without knowing things like how many pursuits were there during that time frame, how many were called off due to dangerous conditions, etc....     This was a flame-bait article that was just meant to start trolls without any real facts or points for discussion.


The reason we dont have better data on pursuits is DPS hides it behind their obtuse interpretation of the Open Records Act, where if something isnt specifically listed in the Act than they dont have to release it.

"Seven Oklahoma Highway Patrol chases resulted in eight deaths. All were within policy that OHP keeps secret"
is a topic worthy of discussion if you believe in accountability.  DPS says they gain a tactical advantage by keeping secret policies that other departments dont hide.  No facts support that.

Did you fall down from the spinning?  Holy cow.

The spinning in the opposite direction from excusing Trump when he says he doesnt counteracts the torque.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2018, 09:54:57 am by patric » Logged

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TeeDub
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« Reply #144 on: May 09, 2018, 10:16:04 am »

The reason we dont have better data on pursuits is DPS hides it behind their obtuse interpretation of the Open Records Act, where if something isnt specifically listed in the Act than they dont have to release it.

"Seven Oklahoma Highway Patrol chases resulted in eight deaths. All were within policy that OHP keeps secret"
is a topic worthy of discussion if you believe in accountability.  DPS says they gain a tactical advantage by keeping secret policies that other departments dont hide.  No facts support that.

The spinning in the opposite direction from excusing Trump when he says he doesnt counteracts the torque.

Could it be possible that the OHP doesn't have a written pursuit policy and that they leave it up to officer discretion?   Again, I have no idea, just asking.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #145 on: May 09, 2018, 10:28:22 am »

Could it be possible that the OHP doesn't have a written pursuit policy and that they leave it up to officer discretion?   Again, I have no idea, just asking.


And how pathetic an excuse for them to use would that be?   Organization that has been around for about 80 years, so would desperately hope they have some type of "training manual" that would address that and dozens of other points.   Now you have me curious, too.


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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
TeeDub
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« Reply #146 on: May 09, 2018, 10:50:46 am »


And how pathetic an excuse for them to use would that be?   Organization that has been around for about 80 years, so would desperately hope they have some type of "training manual" that would address that and dozens of other points.   Now you have me curious, too.


Training manual is not a "pursuit policy."   I am not a lawyer, but could having an official written policy could open them up to lawsuits, whereas a handbook of guidelines and formalized training would leave things open to individual discretion?   

Sometimes having written policies remove flexibility that is needed.

(Read this book on similar issues...  A little dry, but it talks about how over regulation sometimes stifles innovation and practical decisions.  Micromanaging everything and leaving no decision making power to the individual, etc.etc.)
https://www.amazon.com/Death-Common-Sense-Suffocating-America/dp/0812982746 
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #147 on: May 09, 2018, 11:21:58 am »

Training manual is not a "pursuit policy."   I am not a lawyer, but could having an official written policy could open them up to lawsuits, whereas a handbook of guidelines and formalized training would leave things open to individual discretion?  

Sometimes having written policies remove flexibility that is needed.

(Read this book on similar issues...  A little dry, but it talks about how over regulation sometimes stifles innovation and practical decisions.  Micromanaging everything and leaving no decision making power to the individual, etc.etc.)
https://www.amazon.com/Death-Common-Sense-Suffocating-America/dp/0812982746  


True.  Either way, though you are gonna be liable.  I have run into the question of written employees handbook before.  Some of the companies I have worked for tried to cover every little detail, some didn't.  I have taken the approach of a very minimalist unwritten 'handbook'.  Since we are very small, the lawyer says it should be good.  Let the payroll service handle the minutia that I don't wanna bother with and just let everyone know that if they piss me off, they're gone!   Lol...not really...we talk about it more.  Sometimes even talk about it more in our outdoor voices...  But then none of us are ever gonna shoot someone in a high speed chase.  I hope...




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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #148 on: May 09, 2018, 11:27:51 am »



(Read this book on similar issues...  A little dry, but it talks about how over regulation sometimes stifles innovation and practical decisions.  Micromanaging everything and leaving no decision making power to the individual, etc.etc.)
https://www.amazon.com/Death-Common-Sense-Suffocating-America/dp/0812982746 





Utopian Dreamscape.  Would that it were possible, but that genie was let out of the bottle probably 4,000 +  years ago with Hammurabi and his predecessors.



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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I donít share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
patric
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« Reply #149 on: May 09, 2018, 11:45:50 am »

Could it be possible that the OHP doesn't have a written pursuit policy and that they leave it up to officer discretion?  

Two troopers racing to be the lead pursuer killed another trooper, which does suggest a lack of formal discipline (if not discretion).
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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
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