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June 27, 2019, 06:12:30 am
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Author Topic: PlaniTulsa surveys falling shorter than expected and where are the TYPRos?  (Read 6526 times)
TURobY
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« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2009, 03:01:55 pm »

I wonder if developers, builders and realtors have organized to move the results to scenario A.

The people that took time out of their day to attend the seminars and planning meetings clearly steered away from "A" in what seemed to be full consensus. Something odd is going on that it is now the most popular choice.

I agree. Something very suspicious...
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---Robert
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« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2009, 03:25:47 pm »

I've been informed that plan A is pulling way ahead of all the others.

This means status quo.

So is all of Owasso and Broken Arrow voting in this thing?

2010 is a  Census year. Maybe we should slow this down a bit and explore the possibility of working with the Census Bureau to get Tulsa households to fill out these surveys. It might be a good idea to slow this process because Comp plan update funding is inadequate or unsecured at this point in time.

I still can't help but feel like the chip packets used in the workshops are eerily similar to the scenarios presented. Tulsa needs a tailored plan. This feels too off the shelf to me.
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DowntownNow
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« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2009, 11:05:23 am »

My perception is that the people/entities that have that power pretty much do what they want to do.  And 2nd, the survey seems slanted towards making you choose the scenario that Planitulsa clearly wants. 

I've completed my survey but I have to say, a lot of people that I have spoken with had the same perceptions that jiminy spoke of.  Many felt that no matter what was voted on as the most popular direction for Tulsa, that Tulsa's typical influential and powerful would guide it to their own plans. 

This was not helped by John Fregonese zipping right past the top 5 concerns among Tulsans during his presentations.  One of which (#3 I think which got no mention) was the concern that only the wealthy and powerful truly have a say in Tulsa's future.  It wasn't helped again when PlaniTulsa started involving Kaiser Family Foundation paid and lent to Taylor City Planner Jack Crowley.  When he started pushing his 5 ideas for downtown development, connectivity, mass transit, 23rd & Jackson, 18th & Boston plans, etc...it made people wonder who was really steering the ship, Kaiser or the people...and thats sad.  I dont begrudge Kaiser for assisting in paying for 1/3 of the comprehensive plan study but thats as far as it should have gone.

I heard Crowley speak at a number of presentations for PlaniTulsa, extolling the virtues of his plans and how they were based on the feedback he was getting from PlaniTulsa...the only problem was that I had seen those plans in his office back in May/June 2008, before PlaniTulsa was really soliciting opinions from the public.  It can make one wonder but in the end, I hope Tulsans step up to the plate and let their concerns and voices be heard regarding the direction they want to see our city grow for the next 30 years.
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DowntownNow
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« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2009, 11:05:50 am »

BTW Double A....luv that idea...kudos
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Theron Warlick
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« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2009, 12:38:38 pm »

Hi TulsaNowers (?).  I talked to a couple of your members at the Lortondale function last night and I think you guys were wanting an update.  In no particular order:

1.  Yes, 20,000 paper surveys have been distributed, but we were never expecting a 100% response on those.  This kind of survey, which is similar to a mailed survey, typically gets about a 2% response rate...and that's about not far off from what we have gathered on paper so far.  There are more to collect.

2.  Things have picked up and over 2,000 more people have responded online, and we expect lots more as we move through the week.  Fregonese says that, in previous efforts, they have gathered as much as one-third of the responses in final 48 hours.

3.  We're extremely happy to have every survey we can get, so thank you all for weighing in and please tell your associates!  If we don't see a last minute rush, then yes, we'll be a couple of thousand surveys under projections...but this data is going to work out just fine.  Also, we're not really worried about people weighing in from other parts of the region and planet, we have several ways to track that.  So far, 87% of the online respondents are reporting to be from some part of Tulsa.  And those who did not respond to this question are not necessarily from other places.  We're paying attention to this and other demographic returns.

4.  Aa's idea is a very good one, especially since the census is being transformed into an on-going process, instead of a decennial one.  See American Community Survey:  http://www.census.gov/acs/www/index.html  Not sure what the rules are with gathering outside data, but it's a cool objective to try and get some continuous local input on these sorts of growth issues.  I do not think that we can do this by the 18th, but I believe that planning, just like the census, should also evolve into an on-going process in Tulsa.  I would also like to note that the statistical survey we started with last year has proven to be invaluable.  We certainly want to work with Tulsans who are motivated about our future, but having actual statistics to compare with  ideas and assertions is essential in understanding of what Tulsans want.  Good call Double A.  I have some ideas...contact me in any way that you are comfortable and I will respond in kind.  

5.  On the "bias" issue.  This survey is actually the product of the workshops that many of you attended last fall and winter.  Scenarios B, C, and D reflect the kinds of changes that you, and subsets of you, asked for in those workshops.  So yes, I think it's fair to say there's a pro-change attitude in the survey...if someone is perfectly content with things as they are today, then why would they come to a workshop?  

Nevertheless, Scenario A is there as a choice.  It's a valuable baseline and it is useful to learn who is most content with the trend and where they live.  I've had a couple of complaints that we should not show the indicators, i.e., the comparisons on population, jobs, congestions, etc., because they make "A" look bad.  Again, the measures were developed with input from the statistical survey, workshops, and the Guiding Principles that Tulsans defined for us.  These measures may not favor "A", but we believe they are reflective of the concerns of Tulsans.

5.  We'll wait for the data to roll in, but I can say that, generally, the results seem reflective of things we've seen both in the workshops and in the statistical survey.  "A" is not running away with it, as someone suggested.

6.  I'm not aware of any conspiracies at this time...we're simply trying, as we have been all along, to get Tulsans to weigh in and help form a shared vision for the future.  That involves getting all sorts of people to speak up, including people who don't always get along with each other.  So please help us do that this week.  Thanks.  I'll check back soon.
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Cherish
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« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2009, 05:36:53 pm »

Um so I filled the survey out before I saw this thread, even though I won't be moving to Tulsa for about 3 more weeks but I saw the banner on the top of this forum and thought it was a TYPro thing, didn't know it was about city planning till I started going through the scenerios. 

Well I picked that my number one choice would be C and second D, as I like cities with a professional, urban downtown feel.  Plus I am all for transportation via light rail, bus systems, subway (doubt that would happen in Tulsa though).  Love housing that is more loft, condo style or restored historical homes that can turn into apartments like Upstate New York, that have options for the YP and the Empty Nesters who want a more urban vibrant feel.  Plus I like a broadway or Main type feel to downtown and surrounding areas too. Always felt suburbs shouldn't turn into downtowns, so Scenario A wouldn't make sense to me, why live in a Surburb to turn it into N. Va or the 'burbs of Baltimore, which no longer feel like a suburb (I know that's where I went to high school going back now does NOT feel like the suburbs I knew in the late 90's).

So scenario C and D were the better choices that I seen from the website, even though they will be costly in the end the economy from the result of newer employment and bringing in a diverse population would result in Tulsa's economy having a higher yield and attracting people to Tulsa, which is the purpose right?  Smiley
« Last Edit: June 16, 2009, 05:41:20 pm by Cherish » Logged
carltonplace
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« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2009, 02:23:14 pm »

^ Yep that is the hope of Tulsa Now  Grin
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ILUVTulsa
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« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2009, 07:34:41 pm »

Scenerio A....ALL da way, baby!  Down with government-owned fixed route transit!  Down with Downtown Development!  Down....Down.....Down, DAMMIT!

And, why did da GOB hire some carpet-baggin' Portlander to do our planning?  Like da locals too stooopid to figure it all out.  GIT REAL.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 07:36:18 pm by ILUVTulsa » Logged

 
Hoss
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« Reply #23 on: June 17, 2009, 08:58:57 pm »

Scenerio A....ALL da way, baby!  Down with government-owned fixed route transit!  Down with Downtown Development!  Down....Down.....Down, DAMMIT!

And, why did da GOB hire some carpet-baggin' Portlander to do our planning?  Like da locals too stooopid to figure it all out.  GIT REAL.

I guarantee if they see a picture of you all decked out that's EXACTLY what they'll be thinking, Paul.
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Theron Warlick
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« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2009, 08:01:34 am »

Today is the last day for surveys!  Please send your friends, families, etc. this link http://www.planitulsa.org/whichwaytulsa

It's only 12 questions.  A few minutes of study could make a huge difference for our future.  Thanks again for helping out.

BTW, we've got over 3,600 now...the pace has really picked up.
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OpenYourEyesTulsa
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« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2009, 08:21:25 am »

Why would anyone choose A?  It is too restrictive on parking and layout.  Option A has more of the same government regulation.   There is no need for 5,000 parking spaces at every new store that are only all used on the busiest shopping day of the year.  And with more public transit and walkable shopping you do not need as much ugly and wasteful surface parking.  I like option C the best.
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Theron Warlick
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« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2009, 01:19:31 pm »

4,100!
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PonderInc
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« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2009, 03:33:22 pm »

Do we have a final count yet?

I was happy to see a sticker on the front of the Tulsa World yesterday.  Assume it caused a big rush on the last day.
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Theron Warlick
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« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2009, 08:24:33 am »

Do we have a final count yet?

I was happy to see a sticker on the front of the Tulsa World yesterday.  Assume it caused a big rush on the last day.
No, we won't have a final count for a few days...paper surveys are still coming in.  We have approximately 4,600 right now.
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PonderInc
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« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2009, 10:21:38 am »

Nice!  I would have loved to see twice as many, but I think this is a pretty strong response (especially for the summer months, when nobody's thinking about much of anything except mowing the lawn and going on vacation).

Actually, when you think about what people were being asked to do (read a bunch of wonkish material and take a survey about future development goals), it's pretty impressive.  This required a bit more intellectual rigor than voting on your favorite American Idol participant ("I like him.  He's cute!").  And probably a lot more studying than most people dedicate to City Council elections ("His name sounds familiar...").

Can't wait to hear the results!  Next up: keeping the Comp Plan on track during (and after) an election year, and holding elected officials' feet to the fire when it comes to implementing the plan.  And making the necessary zoning changes that will ALLOW the plan to be realized.  (I'm assuming that Scenario A, aka "Slow Death by Attrition," was not the favorite... I'm pretty sure that "A" is the only scenario that would not require amendments to our zoning code.)
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