Tulsa Named Most Dangerous City In Oklahoma

[MH2010]

I'll try to get more accurate numbers for TPD.

[Rico]

I have a question of sorts...... The way I understand V2025, and this may be incorrect, the money is being taken out at the same rate as though the Boeing Portion had passed... Eventually, I have read, there will be a cut-off amount when everything has been funded, minus Boeing of course... If this is true, and once again I may be mistaken, what would be the harm in using the Boeing Fund, or a portion of that amount, for County Wide Police Improvements......
That is of course if there were a way this could be presented to the residents of Tulsa County.. It would not mean a Tax increase, we are already paying the amount. All it would mean is the projects being funded by V2025 would be slowed down a little.And the amount could end at the same time the Phantasia Arena is going to bring us this windfall of sales tax revenue.......

If all of this is misinformation I apologize in advance,......  

[swake]

I am against using bond money and votes for operational issues.

That said, the Boeing money is NOT being collected and a case could be made for a small sales tax increase to fund police operations on a permanent basis. But don't make it revolving. Capital projects should go to a vote of the people on a regular basis so that projects are in line with the public will, but don't make us lay off 100 officers due to a tax being voted down. Make any tax that funds anything like police salaries permanent.

[Neptune]

My understanding is that the Boeing part of the tax did not go into effect....as promised.  I haven't looked at a reciept lately, so....

The city of Tulsa could seek to increase the sales tax for TPD.  However, with sales tax revenues constantly in decline, it is still a temporary fix.  Also, sales tax rates for Tulsa are below the rates for the burbs, but not by much.  Right now, with no tax increase, all it would take would be for a bond to expire and one of the burbs could undercut Tulsa.  Don't know how much that matters, but it wouldn't add any incentive for shoppers to pass up Owasso or Broken Arrow and head for Tulsa.  

And we still don't know the total effects of casinos and the lottery.  We're losing sales tax on tobacco, its possible we could lose local tax revenue to Bass Pro, and its quite likely that Tulsa will see increased poverty and crime due to gaming.  It may take more than a small tax increase to fix anything by this time next year.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by neptune74137

My understanding is that the Boeing part of the tax did not go into effect....as promised.  I haven't looked at a reciept lately, so....

The city of Tulsa could seek to increase the sales tax for TPD.  However, with sales tax revenues constantly in decline, it is still a temporary fix.  Also, sales tax rates for Tulsa are below the rates for the burbs, but not by much.  Right now, with no tax increase, all it would take would be for a bond to expire and one of the burbs could undercut Tulsa.  Don't know how much that matters, but it wouldn't add any incentive for shoppers to pass up Owasso or Broken Arrow and head for Tulsa.  

And we still don't know the total effects of casinos and the lottery.  We're losing sales tax on tobacco, its possible we could lose local tax revenue to Bass Pro, and its quite likely that Tulsa will see increased poverty and crime due to gaming.  It may take more than a small tax increase to fix anything by this time next year.

Yes Sir, This one is sewed up pretty tight........

Maybe this should be a question best posed to the Mayor of our fine City..  
And The Cosa Nostra Council or whatever they are being called this week....

That is what they are supposed to get paid for.....

Or maybe we could pose this question to The All Mighty Chamber.. Or would this be the Thorn that they would feel more comfortable with the EDC handling............

[Johnboy976]

Here is the fact of the matter. You are worried that Tulsa is unsafe. I lived in the city for twenty years, and all of a sudden I am told the place is unsafe. Well I would like you to tell me where it is in Tulsa that it's unsafe to live. If you want to make it known that you are absolutely scared of the place, then don't move here. One year, in a very many we are considered the most unsafe city in OKLAHOMA!!! I think that it's paranoia that fuels people to be scared of a place. Most, if not all of the murders occurred between people that knew each other. Unless you have ticked someone off to that point, I think you are safe.

[D.Schuttler]

On 12-12-04 at 8 pm there was 17 calls waiting to be given to a police officer in the UDE division.....  Something needs done.

(Granted I have heard some calls go out that would be nice to be able to ignore them.)

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by D.Schuttler

On 12-12-04 at 8 pm there was 17 calls waiting to be given to a police officer in the UDE division.....  Something needs done.

(Granted I have heard some calls go out that would be nice to be able to ignore them.)

Just a little exercise for people that are bored........

Log on to Tulsa Police.org on some Friday or Saturday night and look at the calls that are being handled.....

And the calls that are waiting........  Last night Uniform Division North at approximately 7 PM had every car on a call and had 11 calls waiting to be assigned........
And this was only Wednesday!

This is the same Division Mayor Bill Broke Bread with on Thanksgiving.............

This must be FIXED!!!!!!!!!!!

Whatever it takes!!!!!!!!!!!

This is one thing that would convince me to pay more TAX............
OH that word leaves a bad taste in my mouth.......!!!

[MH2010]

I didn't know you could look at calls on the TPD website. Whoever thought of putting calls on the website deserves a metal!

You should see Thursday, Friday and Saturdays in the summer!  Low priority calls hold for 5 or 6 hours because no one can go.  High priority calls sometimes hold for over an hour.  If more people knew this, they would be up in arms and calling on the mayor and the city counsel to do something about it.  

Know people can see why there is little to no proactive police work anymore (at least not like there used to be). It's because everyone is trying to keep up with the calls.  

Just for the record Sundays are the slow days.

(1527 hours, Thursday 6 calls holding at UDN.)

[Rico]

With all of the money and effort being put into so many things in Tulsa, why not fix this problem???
Make it a priority!!!!!

What are we going to do when the National Trust Visits??

Issue License to Carry Permits at the Airport Gates, Then introduce ourselves as the City that lost The Skelly for a parking lot???
But we could always smooth that over by showing them the "New Tulsa", complete with
20 something lofts in the Philtower and an abandoned
Downtown........

[Juan Mad Okie]

quote:Originally posted by Rico

With all of the money and effort being put into so many things in Tulsa, why not fix this problem???
Make it a priority!!!!!

heres one thing that can be done ,IMO, get the Tulsa police away from traffic duty, you dont need a degree to pull over speeders or to handle accidents, as such wages wouldnt have to be as high as our crimefighters (who desperatly need a raise!). Also they could be used as backup to the boys in blue if they need an extra hand (and visa versa if the traffic stop becomes ugly).

[jdb]

"you dont need a degree to pull over speeders..." - JMO

Maybe not, but you'll need a gun.
Which would mandate some type of certification - hopefully.

Walking up on a car you've pulled over or answering a Domestic Violence call...I wonder which one is creepier for an officer?

Creepy, meaning lethal.

Personally, I wouldn't perform either job at a lessor payscale then other officers - and not just because I am a big coward either - which I am.

Placing yourself in harms way, your life on a line - which common traffic stops have proved to become - needs to be properly compensated.
I don't see an inexpensive way around this.

You won't see me working the late shift at Jim's Booze-O-Rama, either.




Rico:

As a fellow hothead, I was able to clearly and easily recognize your deep sense of frustration by your use of multiple question marks (??) and the ire of your lashing exclaimation points (!!!!) read loud and pointedly, here in your latest post. I applaud your keystrokes.

However, in your ferver there was a cruical omisson that must be corrected.

You contend that we:
1. "Issue License to Carry Permits at the Airport Gates".
2. "Then introduce ourselves as the City...".

I am sure the goof is now obvious, but:

Item two should have read:
"Subsidize Neptunes, used but mostly functional, firearms Retail Outlet, so that a convienantly located stand can be built just South of Fine Parking. Thus, visiting VIP's can arm themselves with suitable firepower that won't clash with their fashion appearal before reaching Tulsa proper.".

Fanning the flames... jdb

[Juan Mad Okie]

quote:Originally posted by jdb

Maybe not, but you'll need a gun.
Which would mandate some type of certification - hopefully.

Im not saying "don't" run them through all the standard police training, that is a nessesity, but what is not needed is a 4 year degree, MOST cities do not have that requirement

[Uranus74136]

quote:Originally posted by jdb

"you dont need a degree to pull over speeders..." - JMO

Maybe not, but you'll need a gun.
Which would mandate some type of certification - hopefully.

Walking up on a car you've pulled over or answering a Domestic Violence call...I wonder which one is creepier for an officer?

Creepy, meaning lethal.

Personally, I wouldn't perform either job at a lessor payscale then other officers - and not just because I am a big coward either - which I am.

Placing yourself in harms way, your life on a line - which common traffic stops have proved to become - needs to be properly compensated.
I don't see an inexpensive way around this.

You won't see me working the late shift at Jim's Booze-O-Rama, either.




Rico:

As a fellow hothead, I was able to clearly and easily recognize your deep sense of frustration by your use of multiple question marks (??) and the ire of your lashing exclaimation points (!!!!) read loud and pointedly, here in your latest post. I applaud your keystrokes.

However, in your ferver there was a cruical omisson that must be corrected.

You contend that we:
1. "Issue License to Carry Permits at the Airport Gates".
2. "Then introduce ourselves as the City...".

I am sure the goof is now obvious, but:

Item two should have read:
"Subsidize Neptunes, used but mostly functional, firearms Retail Outlet, so that a convienantly located stand can be built just South of Fine Parking. Thus, visiting VIP's can arm themselves with suitable firepower that won't clash with their fashion appearal before reaching Tulsa proper.".

Fanning the flames... jdb

When all the body bags are tallied, statistically it is much more dangerous to be STOPPED BY the police, than it is for the police to STOP a vehicle.  

On average, only about 50 police are killed in a given year "in the line of duty".  That is a tiny, tiny, fraction of the several million law enforcement officers on the payroll around the U.S.

Statistically, it is much more dangerous to be in the occupational classication of Fireman.  Or worse, a civilian STOPPED by the police.

When was the last Tulsa policeman killed in the Line of Duty? Was it the unfortunate Gus Spanos about 11 years ago?

How many Tulsans have been killed by the Tulsa PD in the last 11 years?  Can't count that high?

[MH2010]

quote:Originally posted by Uranus74136

quote:Originally posted by jdb

"you dont need a degree to pull over speeders..." - JMO

Maybe not, but you'll need a gun.
Which would mandate some type of certification - hopefully.

Walking up on a car you've pulled over or answering a Domestic Violence call...I wonder which one is creepier for an officer?

Creepy, meaning lethal.

Personally, I wouldn't perform either job at a lessor payscale then other officers - and not just because I am a big coward either - which I am.

Placing yourself in harms way, your life on a line - which common traffic stops have proved to become - needs to be properly compensated.
I don't see an inexpensive way around this.

You won't see me working the late shift at Jim's Booze-O-Rama, either.




Rico:

As a fellow hothead, I was able to clearly and easily recognize your deep sense of frustration by your use of multiple question marks (??) and the ire of your lashing exclaimation points (!!!!) read loud and pointedly, here in your latest post. I applaud your keystrokes.

However, in your ferver there was a cruical omisson that must be corrected.

You contend that we:
1. "Issue License to Carry Permits at the Airport Gates".
2. "Then introduce ourselves as the City...".

I am sure the goof is now obvious, but:

Item two should have read:
"Subsidize Neptunes, used but mostly functional, firearms Retail Outlet, so that a convienantly located stand can be built just South of Fine Parking. Thus, visiting VIP's can arm themselves with suitable firepower that won't clash with their fashion appearal before reaching Tulsa proper.".

Fanning the flames... jdb

When all the body bags are tallied, statistically it is much more dangerous to be STOPPED BY the police, than it is for the police to STOP a vehicle.  

On average, only about 50 police are killed in a given year "in the line of duty".  That is a tiny, tiny, fraction of the several million law enforcement officers on the payroll around the U.S.

Statistically, it is much more dangerous to be in the occupational classication of Fireman.  Or worse, a civilian STOPPED by the police.

When was the last Tulsa policeman killed in the Line of Duty? Was it the unfortunate Gus Spanos about 11 years ago?

How many Tulsans have been killed by the Tulsa PD in the last 11 years?  Can't count that high?

One of the most dangerous things a police officer does is traffic stops.  They are always unknown risk stops because you simply don't know who you are dealing with.  It could be anyone from a nice senior citizen to a murder suspect who won't be taken alive.

[Officer Gus Spanos died April 23, 1993 after an early morning shooting following a car stop in Tulsa on April 22,1993.About 1:48 a.m., Officer Spanos stopped a car at 5800 N. Cincinnati Ave. His backing officer found him lying next to his patrol unit with a bullet wound to the head. He was transported to the hospital where he died at 12:26 p.m. the following day.]

[Officer Fabrienne Van Arsdell burned to death on July 25, 1981, when her patrol car was rammed from behind by a drunk driver. Her car caught on fire before she could escape. She had stopped a drunk driver at 6300 S. Lewis Avenue and was running a records check when another drunk driver drove into the rear of her patrol car.  The police car burst into flames and the doors were jammed from the collision.]

And to answer Uranus, Statistically speaking in Tulsa, it is much more dangerous to be a civilian that tries to kill the police or other civilians on a traffic stop. Civilians that obey the law and not try to kill anyone will get thru the car stop and be just fine.


I don't know how many people have been killed by TPD in the last 11 years. However, I do know that a greater number has tried to kill us.I've been on the department for four years and two people have tried to kill me and I can't even count all the other times someone was trying to kill someone else and I arrived at the scene to step into the middle of it. I survived my encounters by training, instinct and luck.  

If it will make you feel better Uranus know that the next Tulsa Police officer that dies lost that battle and the bad guy won so then maybe your statistics won't be so skewed.

<<<<<FYI  (1713 hours, Friday) >>>

UDSW
25 active calls and 3 calls holding
UDE
22 active calls and 1 call holding
UDN
13 active calls and no calls holding