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Author Topic: New highway dividers.  (Read 10206 times)
Fatstrat
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« on: January 27, 2009, 09:21:22 pm »

I'll bet after the ice storm that Tulsa has a lot more of these to replace. That on top of the near constant replacing of sections destroyed during better weather.
 Does it seem to anyone else that including materials and labor, these might not have the best idea. Say over using concrete that wouldn't need constant replacement?
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Breadburner
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« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2009, 09:29:20 pm »

They are awful...And a maintenance night-mare....Especially when you put them on one side of te road instead of the median where it belongs....Not to mention the fact anyone that gets into it on a motorcycle is hamburger...
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Conan71
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« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2009, 10:23:46 pm »

Looking at costs, they could have dropped in even temporary concrete barriers and they'd be better off safety-wise.  You'd scrub off crash energy, and yeah, might look like disorganized dominoes when you are done, but at least the driver might survive.  The cable/pier system reminds me of Ginsu knives.  As a motorcyclist, they look like a ****ing cabbage cutter to me.
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dsjeffries
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« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2009, 11:06:53 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

As a motorcyclist, they look like a ****ing cabbage cutter to me.



+1 on the danger to motorcyclists. I'm so outraged at the way ODOT does things that I often run out of words.  Do they ever consider that it's not just cars and trucks on our highways and that their decision to use something that needs perpetual repair is going to eventually kill a motorcyclist or person who is ejected from their vehicle??

It reminds me of a discussion we had on here about the City of Tulsa using brick pavers on sidewalks instead of concrete. Imagine what riding in a wheelchair would be like on those things.. When designing something to be used by many groups of people, one needs to consider all of those groups, not just one.
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patric
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« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2009, 11:23:59 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

Looking at costs, they could have dropped in even temporary concrete barriers and they'd be better off safety-wise.  You'd scrub off crash energy, and yeah, might look like disorganized dominoes when you are done, but at least the driver might survive.  The cable/pier system reminds me of Ginsu knives.  As a motorcyclist, they look like a ****ing cabbage cutter to me.



They only considered upfront cost when picking them over Jersey Barriers.
Repairing wire barriers over and over again will cost more in the long run, but at least were creating jobs for some low bidder.
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nathanm
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« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2009, 01:00:03 am »

quote:
Originally posted by patric

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

Looking at costs, they could have dropped in even temporary concrete barriers and they'd be better off safety-wise.  You'd scrub off crash energy, and yeah, might look like disorganized dominoes when you are done, but at least the driver might survive.  The cable/pier system reminds me of Ginsu knives.  As a motorcyclist, they look like a ****ing cabbage cutter to me.



They only considered upfront cost when picking them over Jersey Barriers.
Repairing wire barriers over and over again will cost more in the long run, but at least were creating jobs for some low bidder.


Cable barriers are excellent for rural highways where they aren't often struck and traffic counts (and thus crash rates) are lower. In the city, not so much.

For a motorcyclist, striking any barrier is likely to result in death, so what's the difference? (I guess the cables "look" more dangerous)
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TurismoDreamin
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« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2009, 01:08:10 am »

Here are two interesting stories regarding cable barriers:



http://www.nzherald.co.nz/road-accidents/news/article.cfm?c_id=663&objectid=10471320


The date of this article is today:
http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=165183&bolum=100
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sgrizzle
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« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2009, 07:12:02 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

Looking at costs, they could have dropped in even temporary concrete barriers and they'd be better off safety-wise.  You'd scrub off crash energy, and yeah, might look like disorganized dominoes when you are done, but at least the driver might survive.  The cable/pier system reminds me of Ginsu knives.  As a motorcyclist, they look like a ****ing cabbage cutter to me.




Cable barriers are safer for 99% of the vehicles on the road because they absorb/diffuse impact. For the motorcyclists, it's a toss up between these and a slab of concrete.
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TurismoDreamin
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« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2009, 01:31:40 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

Looking at costs, they could have dropped in even temporary concrete barriers and they'd be better off safety-wise.  You'd scrub off crash energy, and yeah, might look like disorganized dominoes when you are done, but at least the driver might survive.  The cable/pier system reminds me of Ginsu knives.  As a motorcyclist, they look like a ****ing cabbage cutter to me.




Cable barriers are safer for 99% of the vehicles on the road because they absorb/diffuse impact. For the motorcyclists, it's a toss up between these and a slab of concrete.



I work in the hospital, and I see patients all the time on the orthopedic floor that come in with with motor vehicle accident related injuries. I would say that about 55-60% of them are usually motorcycle drivers. I have known several cases that said they were simply run off the road and slid into a ditch, or in some cases, hit a concrete barrier. They usually suffer a little road rash and a few broken bones and that can be fixed. If you get sliced in half by a cable barrier (refer to my previous post), there's nothing we can do for you there.

Motorcycles are dangerous anyway. There's a reason why the hospital refers to this population as organ donors.
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Aa5drvr
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« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2009, 08:18:26 pm »

Lets give these cable barriers about 18 months.  
My guess is that their need of repair will be on par with the lights on the expressway above them.
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Conan71
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« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2009, 10:12:47 am »

quote:
Originally posted by nathanm

quote:
Originally posted by patric

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

Looking at costs, they could have dropped in even temporary concrete barriers and they'd be better off safety-wise.  You'd scrub off crash energy, and yeah, might look like disorganized dominoes when you are done, but at least the driver might survive.  The cable/pier system reminds me of Ginsu knives.  As a motorcyclist, they look like a ****ing cabbage cutter to me.



They only considered upfront cost when picking them over Jersey Barriers.
Repairing wire barriers over and over again will cost more in the long run, but at least were creating jobs for some low bidder.


Cable barriers are excellent for rural highways where they aren't often struck and traffic counts (and thus crash rates) are lower. In the city, not so much.

For a motorcyclist, striking any barrier is likely to result in death, so what's the difference? (I guess the cables "look" more dangerous)



That's assuming a head-on crash.  A glancing blow and a rider will likely slide off the barrier.  Getting tangled up in cable on a glancing blow is another story...

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« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2009, 11:27:32 am »

The cable system is very popular and is catching on all over. Kansas is thinking about installing cable on many roads. The cable system works best on certain roads, if the divider is real wide then cables don't really work good. We have them all over Central Ohio and they say the cables saved tons of lives and stopped many head-on crashes. The I-270 loop that circles the metro area of Columbus Ohio has cable dividers and results are good. I think the bottom line is cable should only be used, (and works best) where the divider is less than 50' wide. If the divider is wider than 50' than cable has no real benefits, the natural  slope of the grass divider works just as well to stop cars. Cable works best on roads with narrow didvider.
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« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2009, 09:13:14 am »

I seem to remember ODOT identifying them as interim (5 year) improvements pending funding for conventional barriers on 75 and 169.  There was media coverage that these come with a $ incentive from the FHWA which is why they are appearing.

I do know that the FHWA is (supposedly) working to develop a better system than the standard Jersey barrier design which is maintenance problematic due to thermal expansion and causes drainage and other issues plus the fact that they are not particularly effective at stopping large truck incursions.


FHWA’s sales pitch - It slices-it dices-it’s not for everyone but hey best of all its cheap in the short term...
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patric
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« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2010, 01:47:07 pm »

A concrete "Jersey Barrier" in action:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UReNC4opOA[/youtube]

What might this have been like if there were only wire barriers?
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custosnox
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« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2010, 10:02:11 pm »

A concrete "Jersey Barrier" in action:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UReNC4opOA[/youtube]

What might this have been like if there were only wire barriers?
The first think I wanted to know is why are there camera's all over the outside of this bus?
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