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November 18, 2017, 08:11:14 am
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Author Topic: Once a week trash pickup  (Read 12173 times)
RecycleMichael
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« Reply #45 on: January 05, 2009, 09:22:29 pm »

The trash burn plant shut down last July when Tulsa stopped taking their trash there. A company that used to operate the plant named Covanta Energy bought it and reopened it in November.

They haven't completely opened all three units and are agressively searching for other trash to keep the fires burning. The plant generates steam and sells it to the Sunoco refinery.
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inteller
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« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2009, 09:40:32 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael

The trash burn plant shut down last July when Tulsa stopped taking their trash there. A company that used to operate the plant named Covanta Energy bought it and reopened it in November.

They haven't completely opened all three units and are agressively searching for other trash to keep the fires burning. The plant generates steam and sells it to the Sunoco refinery.



why is it hard to get trash?  I thought Tulsa had to pay someone to take our trash?
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Red Arrow
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« Reply #47 on: January 05, 2009, 10:30:36 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Steve

No offense, but why people in Tulsa have fescue lawns is a complete mystery to me.  



Bermuda doesn't grow well in the shade. Many areas of our yard had a nice stand of Bermuda in the early 70s.  30 some years of tree growth knocked a bunch of it out. Tree damage last winter has allowed some of it to come back.  Not sure about zoysia. All the grasses I've seen that are shade tolerant seem to be a fescue variety.
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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #48 on: January 05, 2009, 10:57:26 pm »

I have a front yard of zoysia.

It is great in full sun, and works pretty good in shade. I water it everyday with an aerobic septic system and it responds well.

The best part is that it makes such a tight turf that it naturally resists weeds.
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pmcalk
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« Reply #49 on: January 06, 2009, 08:34:21 am »

quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael

The trash burn plant shut down last July when Tulsa stopped taking their trash there. A company that used to operate the plant named Covanta Energy bought it and reopened it in November.

They haven't completely opened all three units and are agressively searching for other trash to keep the fires burning. The plant generates steam and sells it to the Sunoco refinery.



It will be interesting to see what happens when Sunoco shuts down its refining operation.  Is there any other potential buyers for steam out there?
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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #50 on: January 06, 2009, 08:54:06 am »

quote:
Originally posted by pmcalk
It will be interesting to see what happens when Sunoco shuts down its refining operation.  Is there any other potential buyers for steam out there?



Not really anybody nearby. The problem is loss of pressure and temperature during transport.

The trash-to-energy plant does have electric generation capability. They could use the steam to power their 16.5 megawatt generator. That could provide enough power need of 15,000 homes (or one and a half Super Wal-Marts).
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Steve
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« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2009, 11:24:51 am »

quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael

The best part is that it makes such a tight turf that it naturally resists weeds.



I second that.  It has a blade structure similar to fescue and feels like a soft carpet under my feet.  Goes dormant in winter for minimal maintenance.  Zoysia does well in both sunny and partial shade.  My front zoysia lawn gets very few weeds in spring/summer;  all I have to do is pull 'em by hand for the few that pop up, no chemicals.  I guess the main drawback is it can be expensive to install; slow growing so it doesn't start well from seed or plugs and sod is the only way to go.
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Townsend
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« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2009, 11:45:38 am »

Trash pick up?

Once a week you say?

Fer it.

Zoysia?  Sounds like something served with Ouzo.
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Wrinkle
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« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2009, 12:26:18 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael

Sorry to burst your knowledge bubble...but there really isn't a BACT test as you call it.

BACT is a term meaning Best Available Control Technology. Here is a legal interpretation...

Section 169(3) of the federal Clean Air Act defines BACT as follows:

The term "best available control technology" means an emission limitation based on the maximum degree of reduction of each pollutant subject to regulation under this Act emitted from or which results from any major emitting facility, which the permitting authority, on a case-by-case basis, taking into account energy, environmental, and economic impacts and other costs, determines is achievable for such facility through application of production processes and available methods, systems, and techniques, including fuel cleaning or treatment or innovative fuel combustion techniques for control of each such pollutant. In no event shall application of "best available control technology" result in emissions of any pollutant which will exceed the emissions allowed by any applicable standard established pursuant to section 111 or 112 of this Act. Emissions from any source utilizing clean fuels, or any other means, to comply with this paragraph shall not be allowed to increase above levels that would have been required under this paragraph as it existed prior to enactment of the federal Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990.
 
The definition states that BACT "means an emission limitation based on the maximum degree of reduction of each pollutant subject to regulation under this Act emitted from or which results from any major emitting facility." It is interesting to note that BACT is somewhat of a misnomer. The form of the requirement is defined as an emission limitation and not as an equipment standard. Therefore, one is constrained to assume that the emission limitation would, in many cases, correspond to the emission rate achieved with either basic or control equipment which would otherwise be determined to be an appropriate control technology requirement. In other words, BACT should be established as a performance requirement, not as an equipment requirement, on authorities to construct and permits to operate.


The trash-to-energy plant was issued an air quality permit by the state and is in compliance. Air quality is monitored three times per second. The test results are all available for review from the state DEQ.



Got any links to these test results at DEQ?
Realtime link to the 3/sec samplings?

The EPA also has jurisdiction, and does have BACT Tests results for the original tests which you suggest don't exist, along with all the letters written by Ogden-Martin seeking relief from further testing.

Those were the ones which showed the thing being wildly out of compliance when it was first built.

...of course, depends on who's compliance standards one uses. DEQ is not the overriding jurisdiction here, and, I'd imagine, permitting by them is a State issue, not EPA.

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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2009, 03:15:28 pm »

What you say is just not true.

There are not examples of "depends on who's compliance standards one uses". There is a clear limit on every particulate. All the information can be accessed through DEQ records.

I am not going to defend the trash-to-energy plant compliance record from over twenty years ago.

The current operator is in compliance and if he burns something he shouldn't, it will show up. Each of the operators over the two decades have had incidents where the monitors showed exceedences and each time they wer slapped or fined.

I think there is actually less chance of non-compliance because they are getting mostly commercial trash instead of residential trash and commercial trash is easier to track.
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Wrinkle
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« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2009, 10:37:28 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael

What you say is just not true.

There are not examples of "depends on who's compliance standards one uses". There is a clear limit on every particulate. All the information can be accessed through DEQ records.

I am not going to defend the trash-to-energy plant compliance record from over twenty years ago.

The current operator is in compliance and if he burns something he shouldn't, it will show up. Each of the operators over the two decades have had incidents where the monitors showed exceedences and each time they wer slapped or fined.

I think there is actually less chance of non-compliance because they are getting mostly commercial trash instead of residential trash and commercial trash is easier to track.



Still looking for a link. Perhaps you can help.

Since this is now a private operation, a more pubic profile is needed. We have no idea what others have decided for us on this thing.

I contend it's now a 'New Source' and should be treated as such. I think that would involve public notice and hearings to achieve startup, and what I called a 'BACT Test', which is really a _process_, not so much a test by itself.

One of my biggest complaints about this plant is its' siting. Sure, it's in an industrial zone, but is upwind of the central city, making whatever it does put out blow directly over us.

Without relocation, control is our only form of management. If they cannot achieve good results, the thing should not run.

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waterboy
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« Reply #56 on: January 08, 2009, 08:09:14 am »

Upwind? Central city? A more pubic profile?

The wind is generally from the south all summer long which means any fumes would be heading northward over Owen Park/Newblock Park. Northwest by any definition.

It is predominantly North/Northeast the rest of the year which means it heads over West Tulsa and occasionally the 21st & Riverside area.

Residents of these two areas can attest to when, where and under what conditions refinery, and trash burning fumes are detected. Rainy days with wind out of the West are always smelly. To me the worst of it is during the summer on the Northwest side because of the stillness and the heat. North winds usually blow stuff upwards and away.

BTW, I'm against profiling of any type but particularly pubic profiling.

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