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November 20, 2017, 01:29:21 am
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Author Topic: 'One Voice' - The Chambers'  (Read 7153 times)
Wrinkle
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« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2008, 01:45:25 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael

quote:
Originally posted by Wrinkle
You'll also note my original posting was not a general attack on the Chamber, it was an attempt to open disussion on a single issue the Chamber themselves initiated.



So you really don't care about the money the Chamber is paid...or that they presented their legislative goals to the council before the council had made their own list...you are just pissed that they want to repeal HB 1804.



Your logic doesn't work here.
The money paid would be fine if they promoted our platform to that value instead of theirs. That's what we pay them to do. There's no reason for our Council to adopt their platform.

Who presented first isn't a factor, all I know is their item followed the City's item on the agenda.

I don't know if 'pissed' is the right word, but I think using my own money to fight against something I not only do not oppose, rather support, has a bad taste and would seem improper etiquette.

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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2008, 02:22:09 pm »

I cannot defend the chamber against both inteller and wrinkle. I don't know their membership revenue and how it is spent, nor know the amount nor disposition of the hotel/motel tax revenue. Again, I am not a member of the Tulsa Metro Chamber.

I don't know what percentage of hotel/motel rooms are in Tulsa city limits versus the suburbs, but it has to be at least 80% of the rooms and the most expensive are all in Tulsa. I would hope that about the same breakdown of their marketing efforts promoting uniquely Tulsa things, like the BOK Center and downtown events.  

I know some of the chamber employees. They seem very energetic and put in lots of hours. They seem to always be trying to sell the region and knowledgable.

You guys act like they are the secret government and work against Tulsa. Everytime they do anything outside the city limits, you act like they have committed treason.

Yes, the chamber has an agenda. Yes, they believe that regional business is good business. Yes, they want area governments to be in support of their legislative goals for the year. I think that means they are doing their job.

Wrinkle just opposes the chamber on the local business use of undocumented labor. He has the majority opinion or HB 1804 wouldn't have passed in the state. The chamber obviously feels that this recently passed law has been detrimental to the economy of the region and want it changed. I suppose it is because some of their members have told them so. For them to try and change the rule now would again be them doing their job.

I think the idea of trying to go to the state legislature and speak with one voice on many issues makes a lot of sense. Many of the things we want truly are regional in scope and solution.
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Wrinkle
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« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2008, 03:00:32 pm »

quote:
Wrinkle just opposes the chamber on the local business use of undocumented labor.


...that's just one aspect of their "One Voice" Program. And, it's related to ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. They seek for us to adopt their entire agenda. If you've read it, there's more than one issue there, tort reform, Opportunity Fund, PreK-12 funding, Emergency Management Fund, Workers' Compensation, Aerospace Infrastructure funding, et al. I doubt anyone can suggest they agree 100% with everything there.


All things equal, why would the Chamber even care about this issue unless their members reaped profit from it?

I'm also a little curious as the process the Chamber went through to establish their platform. Did they even poll their membership, for example?

When you pay your membership fee, do you have to just adopt the bait, line and sinker to join?

The Hotel Tax monies are not for membership, they're for services. If they feel they can perform those services, great. Just do it.


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waterboy
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« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2008, 08:44:25 pm »

Inteller, the Chamber feels it is the voice of business. When they oppose 1804 it isn't becaue they favor illegal immigration. That is too simplistic. They are bothered by the RESULT of the legislation which was to cause emigration of legal Hispanic Americans. They are bothered by  being saddled with the responsiblity and expense of doing what they percieve as government's job in monitoring and controlling illegal immigration. They are bothered by the real and possible abuses the law creates. Those are issues of cost to businessmen and of course they will take a stand to relieve that cost.

I'm no huge Chamber critic or supporter. They lost my good will when as a small businessman they sent a recruiter to my office to rail about the high minimum wage, the Clinton adminstration and gubmn't getting in the way of business. He like to fainted when I told him I voted for Clinton and supported higher minimum wages. But later on they were supportive of my boat business and made efforts to help me.

I'm suspicious of the hotel tax and its efficacy but I don't deny them their role in supporting Tulsa and its business people.
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Double A
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« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2008, 10:45:25 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by inteller

well, they can 'feel' all they want, but they have barely even given Tulsa a reach around for city causes while gladly taking their money.  Meanwhile, other cities have a 'voice of business' that does what is best for their respective municipalities.

As far as emigration of hispanic americans, if they are hispanic americans they are leaving for unfounded reasons because hispanic americans have nothing to worry about.  Neither do asian americans, african americans, or arab americans.  That 'result' is just bogus.  But the item on their list states that they will fight immigration laws that put Oklahoman businesses (note they didn't say Tulsa businesses) at an economic disadvantage.  That is the old speeding analogy 'well if everyone else is speeding then I should be able to speed to!'  Sorry it doesn't work that way.  The law is the law, Oklahoma is just making sure people play by the rules.



True dat.

BTW, Owasso recently dedicated part of their hotel/motel tax towards neighborhood revitalization(Strong Neighborhoods Initiative). Tulsa ought to do the same. That would be a much better return on the investment than the Chamber slush fund we currently have.
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« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2008, 01:07:34 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by waterboy

They are bothered by the RESULT of the legislation which was to cause emigration of legal Hispanic Americans.


It would be even more troublesome to know how much we have been sending them, or, allowing them to leave, completely empty.
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Rico
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« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2008, 04:46:59 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by inteller

well, that opens up the larger question, which is what is the ROI for the TMC?  The city puts in X amount of dollars every year, we should expect to get something back in return that directly impacts our bottom line.



As far as I have been able to learn... and I have made this statement many times.. and not a soul has ever said it was incorrect..
"The Tulsa Metro Chamber does not even provide the COT with an annual reporting or accountability of the monies they are given."

This thing has been stinking for a long time.

Even though I am not a fan of David Arnutt (sp?)
the following article documents the existence of the situation with the Tulsa Metro Chamber some years back..

http://www.tulsatoday.com/archive/hoteltax.htm

That being said; I may be willing to see things  "the Chamber Way" way for a small stipend of the slush fund referenced by Double A...
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Wrinkle
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« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2009, 08:11:10 pm »

Anyone know what a simple Chamber Membership might cost for a City like Tulsa?

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waterboy
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« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2009, 08:17:29 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Wrinkle

Anyone know what a simple Chamber Membership might cost for a City like Tulsa?





5 years ago I paid $350. Don't know currently. It was a basic membership.
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Wrinkle
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« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2009, 10:17:09 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by inteller

council (rightly) killed this...notice not much coverage of its defeat obviously.  its a good day for the city of tulsa!



"No further discussion scheduled" in the minutes doesn't exactly cover it, does it?

This is a story the World should be all over and apparently no longer has the staff to do so.

...or, is that the will?
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sgrizzle
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« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2009, 10:16:53 am »

They should have followed the chamber's style and written:

I AM defeated
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