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Author Topic: Can Kathy Taylor Be Beat?  (Read 13040 times)
waterboy
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« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2008, 01:51:35 pm »

I think the only profile for a successful Tulsa mayor would be an evangelical, Native American, entrepreneurial, environmentalist, pragmatic with some Irish ancestors and a African American spouse who wears a holster. Someone who could transcend the incorrect stereotypes that Dems have been branded with here. Is there such an animal?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2008, 01:52:51 pm by waterboy » Logged
Hometown
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« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2008, 02:02:04 pm »

No one has tried coalition politics.  We could build a new voting majority.  We keep playing the same old game plan without success.  Or we could find a Huey Long and play the old game plan to win.

If we had a viable alternative to Taylor, I would support the alternative.  In lieu of a good alternative she is our best shot at keeping a Democrat in Tulsa's mayor's office.

But I don't like her.

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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2008, 04:15:45 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by inteller
i'm currently shopping my platform with various potential surrogates, and I have a couple interested, but some of them don't think the public will get it.



inteller=king maker.
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waterboy
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« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2008, 04:18:45 pm »

I agree that the understanding of how things work in Tulsa is a mystery. It certainly was to me when I started in business. Ignorance was bliss. It amazes me that KT has accomplished as much as she has. The myriad of unaccountable boards and authorities means city leadership is weak by default. That's where the power resides not in the mayor or council. You only have as much power as your troops allow you. As we all know, many board and authority members are reminiscent of Caroline Kennedy as a senate hopeful. Mostly name and connections.

Radical, non partisan thinking. Where's that going to come from? Float some planks of your platform and see if they are indeed palatable.
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swake
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« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2008, 04:22:52 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by inteller
i'm currently shopping my platform with various potential surrogates, and I have a couple interested



Funniest damn thing on the internet this week.
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waterboy
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« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2008, 04:37:48 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Hometown

No one has tried coalition politics.  We could build a new voting majority.  We keep playing the same old game plan without success.  Or we could find a Huey Long and play the old game plan to win.

If we had a viable alternative to Taylor, I would support the alternative.  In lieu of a good alternative she is our best shot at keeping a Democrat in Tulsa's mayor's office.

But I don't like her.





Expand on who the coalition members would be. From what I see, outside of minorities, the power players are: Republican party, Democratic Party, Libertarians, national corporates, trust funds, inner city alliances, outer city alliances, North side, downtown churches/synagogues, suburban churches, oilies, academics, medical, anyone with lots of money, real estate and engineering firms.

Right now all but the Democrats and the Northside coalesce to form a pretty strong conservative republican block. Who else do you see forming a coalition with Dems and why would they?
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Hometown
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« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2008, 04:52:16 pm »

Yes, I would like to see decisions about my city made by elected officials not a group of philanthropists that give to get and control.

I've lived all over the place and I've never had the sense that the city I was living in was run by a group of unelected rich individuals until I returned home.  The whole ballpark thing has been very instructive.

I'll disagree with the self-serving and brown nosing TulsaWorld, we aren't indebt to the philanthropists; we are held back by them.

The good old boy system is the problem in Tulsa and until we have another newspaper I don't think any light is going to be shed on the problem because the Lortons are central to the good old boy system.

We are stuck, unless someone with enough money or smarts comes along to circumvent the giving gaggle that believes with some reason that it owns Tulsa.  Taylor fit perfectly into their way of doing things and as I said, has appointed herself ringleader of the good old boy system.

The good old boys are why we got in trouble in the first place.  They arenít going to get us out of trouble.

Democrats?  Oher than Dan Boren, the Democrats lost everything this last election.

Just saw, your most recent post, I'll get back to you about coaltion politics.

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« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2008, 05:57:29 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Hometown

I would say that she is vulnerable.  But the local Democrats donít seem to have a stable of qualified candidates.  If we had a viable alternative I would support the alternative.

Iím a life long Democrat but I donít like Taylorís style of governing.  She fancies herself a Corporate Titan when we really need a Mayor.

She is a little Napoleon, she is litigious and she doesnít have the generosity of spirit that I look for in leaders.  She lacks character and has a mean streak.

She single handedly threw out decades of public investment in our Civic Center so that the city could have a corporate headquarters as grand her own home.

She has failed in her biggest mission Ė finding us a police chief that would put the good old boy system to rest.

In fact Taylor seems to have appointed herself ringleader of the good ole boys.

The cityís relationship with the Bank of Oklahoma is downright anticompetitive and unhealthy.  Taylor has tried to exploit rather than remedy.

The only thing Taylor did that I liked was ask FEMA for money, in person, all by herself.  That took leadership.

My mole in city government said she has forced out numerous key old timers and replaced them with her yes men and women.  It looks like she is planning on using Tulsa one way or the other.

I want a shake up in the local Democratic Party, but Iím not hopeful that we are smart enough to make that happen.





Couldn't have said it better myself.
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MDepr2007
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« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2008, 06:04:50 pm »

The arena might have been done without costing the citizens ( not sure about that though)but at the expense of the skate park and soccer fields. Then again the ones using that are not as important I supopose, they still have other cities they can go to instead for an updated skateboard park.....
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Red Arrow
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« Reply #39 on: December 22, 2008, 06:25:28 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Hometown

Now is the time for creative self destruction and reinventing the Oklahoma Democratic Party with a message that is more meaningful to the Oklahomans.

We need a shakeup.





Probably true for more than Ok Dems (meaning Republicans too).  Too often the thought is that "we aren't getting our message out" when the truth is that the message got out just fine. It was rejected.
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Gaspar
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« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2008, 06:34:08 pm »

I don't think so.  She has not been a bad mayor.  In fact, I would say that she has been a good face for Tulsa.  

The BOK Center was not her child, but it was finished and promoted during her watch, and 90% of the people will make that connection.  The new city hall was all hers, and it's a huge improvement to the old dregs.  The Ballpark was her child, and the people will associate 100% of that with her.  

So, I think she has momentum it would be highly unlikely to see any serious candidate. No matter Republican or Democrat, the battle is simply illogical.  

Now to discuss the legacy. . . she has a good image, she gives Tulsa a smart image in the press.  So, I have to go back to ICONS.  It's not fair, and it's not right, but leaders are remembered by icons.  Just like artists, what did they create?

As a Mayor people don't remember you for good things, unless they are lasting icons.  Sure they will remember the crime rate, or inflation, or impediments to development or progress.  They will focus on every pothole or every time the power goes out.  As a Mayor those things are remembered. . . but, a single successful icon like the BOK or the Ballfield or any lasting landscape or architectural feature has the power to erase half a dozen negatives, because time forgets pain.  When the pain is gone the Ballfield is still there.

Reality is not politically correct.



« Last Edit: December 22, 2008, 06:35:39 pm by Gaspar » Logged

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« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2008, 06:49:28 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar

As a Mayor people don't remember you for good things, unless they are lasting icons.  Sure they will remember the crime rate, or inflation, or impediments to development or progress.  They will focus on every pothole or every time the power goes out.  As a Mayor those things are remembered. . . but, a single successful icon like the BOK or the Ballfield or any lasting landscape or architectural feature has the power to erase half a dozen negatives, because time forgets pain.  When the pain is gone the Ballfield is still there.

Reality is not politically correct.




Kind of the opposite of one aw-s*** wiping out 100 atta-boys.
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Jitter Free
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« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2008, 07:31:23 pm »

When I first started this topic, my initial thoughts if KT was to draw a primary opponent or a general opponent were:  (i) her opponent better have an awful lot of money and (ii) if that person won, what kind of city would her opponent be inhereting and why would they want to inheret it (I was really thinking about the state of our economy and my assumption that sales tax revenues will decline substantially next year -- this is an assumption)?  

Inteller, that is an interesting thought about STCC.  I live in south Tulsa and I will admit that I am impressed with there organization, their fundraising and their ability to follow through.  I haven't been around Tulsa but 10 or so years but I would say that during my time here they have been one of if not the most successful citizens group in town, but I don't think they have ever gotten behind a candidate before.  If they did, it would be interesting to watch.  

At the end of the day, I still wonder whether or not KT can be beat.  Too much money and the average person doesn't know anything about her other than (from the average citizen's viewpoint) she got the arena built, she got a streets package passed, she got the drillers to stay in Tulsa and she is getting a ballpark built.





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waterboy
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« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2008, 08:18:53 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by inteller

quote:
Originally posted by waterboy

quote:
Originally posted by Hometown

No one has tried coalition politics.  We could build a new voting majority.  We keep playing the same old game plan without success.  Or we could find a Huey Long and play the old game plan to win.

If we had a viable alternative to Taylor, I would support the alternative.  In lieu of a good alternative she is our best shot at keeping a Democrat in Tulsa's mayor's office.

But I don't like her.





Expand on who the coalition members would be. From what I see, outside of minorities, the power players are: Republican party, Democratic Party, Libertarians, national corporates, trust funds, inner city alliances, outer city alliances, North side, downtown churches/synagogues, suburban churches, oilies, academics, medical, anyone with lots of money, real estate and engineering firms.

Right now all but the Democrats and the Northside coalesce to form a pretty strong conservative republican block. Who else do you see forming a coalition with Dems and why would they?



you are badly forgetting the south tulsa neighborhood associations.  Particularly STCC.  If STCC gets behind someone like Bill Christiansen you can expect a good fight. All KTT has to do is keep running her fat mouth about a yale/121st bridge and she has completely lost South Tulsa.



No I didn't forget them. I listed them as "outer city alliances". I prefer to not have areas of the city face off against each other with names like Midtowners, Maple Ridgers and Suburbans, when the reality is that we're separated more by distance than personality. I could easily live in certain parts of the city outside the core and newer homes make life easier. But East Tulsans who live at 41st and 129th face the same problems as other outer citians. People in Brady face the same issues as people in Brookside etc.

I agree with you that STCC is a valuable ally just like any other neighborhood group. Building a coalition of inner city and outer city alliances over an issue like the bridge would probably propel someone new into office.

That said, Christianson doesn't come to mind.
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waterboy
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« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2008, 08:55:57 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Gaspar

I don't think so.  She has not been a bad mayor.  In fact, I would say that she has been a good face for Tulsa.  

The BOK Center was not her child, but it was finished and promoted during her watch, and 90% of the people will make that connection.  The new city hall was all hers, and it's a huge improvement to the old dregs.  The Ballpark was her child, and the people will associate 100% of that with her.  

So, I think she has momentum it would be highly unlikely to see any serious candidate. No matter Republican or Democrat, the battle is simply illogical.  

Now to discuss the legacy. . . she has a good image, she gives Tulsa a smart image in the press.  So, I have to go back to ICONS.  It's not fair, and it's not right, but leaders are remembered by icons.  Just like artists, what did they create?

As a Mayor people don't remember you for good things, unless they are lasting icons.  Sure they will remember the crime rate, or inflation, or impediments to development or progress.  They will focus on every pothole or every time the power goes out.  As a Mayor those things are remembered. . . but, a single successful icon like the BOK or the Ballfield or any lasting landscape or architectural feature has the power to erase half a dozen negatives, because time forgets pain.  When the pain is gone the Ballfield is still there.

Reality is not politically correct.







I think the strongest element of her icon status is that she is so darn corporate. A lawyer for sure but in the corporate vein. She talks their language, she makes decisions with the same mindset, she rounds up employees that are like her and builds a firewall. Corporates like her.

However, that attitude has made her look like she favors a strong, coldly calculating executive type mayorship. True or not, thats the reality. She maybe is not as comfortable with the stable of horses that run the streets as she is with the thoroughbreds.

My suggestion for any leader in Tulsa is that before they are allowed to run for office they must show a signed paper that shows they were dropped off by themselves after 5pmatWalMart at Admiral & Sheridan, or 81st & Lewis, one of the casinoes, an apartment complex at 31st & Mingo, a BTW football game, the parking lot at St.John's at 10am, Toys R Us at 71st, south Memorial between 91st and 117th, with $20 bucks in their pocket and a cell phone.

Learn about your constituents, then run for office.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2008, 07:39:32 am by waterboy » Logged
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