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Author Topic: Best elementary schools in Tulsa County  (Read 3716 times) Share
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RecycleMichael
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« on: November 03, 2008, 10:06:28 am »

The Academic Performance Index for Oklahoma schools was released on Thursday. Five area elementary schools made perfect scores.

They are Jenks SouthEast Elementary, Owasso EC Center, Owasso Pamela Hodson Elementary, Tulsa Carnegie Elementary and Tulsa Eisenhower International school.

These are the best schools in the county. No schools from Union and no schools from other suburbs made perfect scores. Note that two Tulsa schools made it.
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inteller
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« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2008, 10:34:56 am »

mmm....the tulsa slant is glaring.  Let's word it another way:

"No other Tulsa schools made perfect scores.  Note two Owasso schools made it."

But let's be straight here, look where the successful schools are, in high pockets of wealth.  Both Tulsa schools are safely in the midtown money belt.  Owasso schools are in the middle of new wealthy subdivisions.  And Jenks SE will be at the top of these lists for years to come.  It is a premier elementary school, again in a wealthy area.

Union is on the decline because of the increasing strain on the north part of their district.  It also doesn't help that their property tax base is in decline because of being built out and no major new housing developments.  The ghettofication of some of their once prestigious subdivisions is extremely depressing.  I drove through my old neighborhood and my jaw dropped at how run down it has become.  Cedar Ridge Elementary used to be a great school, but it is going down hill as they have to waste more and more money on ESL classes.....just go a few miles over to Jenks and you have Chinese immersion studies.  It is easy to tell where future leaders are going to be coming from.
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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2008, 11:37:51 am »

Did you even go to school? Where did you learn geography?

Carnegie is at 56th and Yale...is that the money belt? Do you think that Eisenhower at 31st and New Haven is a more prosperous neighborhood than the Union school districts?

Sorry, inteller. Your conclusion is bogus. And sorry that your old school is in decline. Are you going to do anything about it?
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2008, 12:14:34 pm »

You can look over the total statewide results here:
http://sde.state.ok.us/AcctAssess/pdf/API/api2008.pdf

Tulsa clearly has some bad schools, but clearly has some very good schools. As the largest district in the state with one of the most diverse populations (race, economics, parental education) such can be expected.  Not that it shouldn't be improved, but the notion that TPS is a bad district is clearly wrong.

The scary thing is about 50% of union elementary schools fall below the standard.  Education across the entire metro needs to be improved.

The FAQ for the results is here:
http://sde.state.ok.us/AcctAssess/pdf/API/FAQ.pdf

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sgrizzle
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« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2008, 12:15:13 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael


Do you think that Eisenhower at 31st and New Haven is a more prosperous neighborhood than the Union school districts?



Yes.

I don't know when a Union School bus ran over your dog but Union spent decades as a rural school serving the areas Tulsa Public Schools and BA didn't want. Once a neighborhood and school became prosperous, then Tulsa would just annex it (ie. Mayo Elementary) One school that was closed only a few years ago, was 50% vacant because those areas were unsafe for human occupation.

You're telling me 31st and Harvard is impoverished but 31st and 129th is rich? Not to mention the fact that Eisenhower is a magnet school featuring the children of many of the up-and-comers in Tulsa society whereas Union does not have such a school.

Everyone thinks that since union has a stadium with astroturf (paid for largely by donations) that they are wealthy. Go in the high school sometime and notice the lack of foodservice facilities, adequate library, the "lunch room" that can only seat about 120 people, etc. The Junior High over on Garnett had to halt construction at about 50% complete because, again, the land mass Union covers does not make near as much $$ as everyone thinks. The other half of the building resumed construction about 3-4 years later.
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inteller
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« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2008, 12:47:31 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael



Carnegie is at 56th and Yale...is that the money belt?



that's Midtown so yes.

the rest sgrizzle said pretty well.  you have a magnet school that caters to the well to do.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2008, 12:48:30 pm by inteller » Logged
RecycleMichael
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« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2008, 01:09:51 pm »

First of all, the magnet school program has children from all over Tulsa, including many from north and east Tulsa. Secondly, the other Tulsa school with a perfect score is not a magnet school.

I was mistaken earlier. One Broken Arrow school did make a perfect score...Vandever Elementary scored a 1500.

In Tulsa, Choteau Elementary was almost perfect scoring a 1492. That school is along the Charles Page line in west Tulsa. Hoover Elementary scored a perfect 1500 last time at this time scored a 1475. They are in the neighborhood southeast of Sears and Big Splash.

Yes, Tulsa had some very low-scoring schools. Their worst schools were worse than Union schools. But you have to also admit that their best were better.
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« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2008, 01:16:15 pm »

Where Carnegie & Eisenhower are located is irrelevant, since both draw students from all over the city (less than 50% of the kids from Carnegie come from the neighborhood).

The truth is the success of the schools is so much dependent upon the parents of the students.  Parents who want their children to have a good education seek out the best schools.  Parents who take the time to apply to magnet schools, or investigate which schools have the best test scores, are going to be the parents who make sure their kids get their homework done, who are going to meet with teachers to ensure their kids are learning, who are going to make sure their kids get to school every day on time.  The same is true for Jenks Southeast--many parents move there specifically for the school.  Parents who buy houses based upon school test scores are the parents who teach their kids to appreciate education.

So the kids that go to these schools are inclined to do well already.  Not that these aren't great schools, I just think much of what it measures is beyond the control of the schools.
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« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2008, 01:26:54 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael

First of all, the magnet school program has children from all over Tulsa, including many from north and east Tulsa.



RM, it should be noted that who you know seems to play a large role in enrollment at EIS.  Several of my friends "called in favors" to get their children in.  True or not I can't say, but why would someone who did so tell me that?  

And living just down the street from there, there is a disproportional number of Mercedes, BMW's and Lexus that go to and from the school.  It is probably largely due to educated parents caring more about education, but my guess is the overall student body is more affluent than the average Tulsan.  

PMCALK pretty well nails my take on the issue.
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inteller
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« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2008, 01:30:59 pm »

yes, people move to a district to be in a good school, demand drives housing prices up, in turn more property taxes are assessed on the higher home values and the schools get more money to spend.

for a brief moment in the 90s, this was the case for Union.  However, homes there are older now and not many new ones are being built.  hence the money they see come in will stagnate or decline as areas become blighted and run down.
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« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2008, 01:34:06 pm »

Yeah that on the parent involvement.  Lately I feel the pull to move to Carnegie area, but as my son's school for Kindergarten next year has a 1473/1500, is it  going to be a better idea to get really involved as a parent at that school to see what I can do to make it better or abandon ship?  

You do know that not all of Tulsa's kids can fit into those 6 perfect elementary schools.  And I don't think the crowing over "Tulsa beats suburbs" helps kids out in any way.
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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2008, 01:47:59 pm »

I agree with pmcalk as well.

My reason for starting the thread is not to dump on every other school, but to praise Tulsa schools. The perception is that Tulsa schools are the worst.

I was at an event last Thursday night where a parent of a four year old was talking about what school they wanted to get into. There were fifteen people there and they all thought that Tulsa schools were the worst. They had all heard it from people unrelated to schools, like real estate agents.

It is just not true. Tulsa schools don't deserve this bad rap.

on to respond to cannon...I am sure that some parents try to influence getting their kids into the magnet schools. We didn't. Our kids got in by simply applying.

Our magnet school does applications by quadrants of the city. There are many more applications from the mid-town neighborhoods. That makes more competition. I don't doubt that some parents in that area feel pressure to have references...We don't live in one of them fancy neighborhoods. Everybody we know from east Tulsa who applied got in.

In my son's class, there are 21 children. Four of them live in north Tulsa, two from west Tulsa, and two from east Tulsa.
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inteller
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« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2008, 01:57:52 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael

 They had all heard it from people unrelated to schools, like real estate agents.




it is part of a real estate agent's job to keep up on what schools are best.  for many people, a real estate agent is the first person they come in contact with when in tulsa looking to relocate.  now you think a real estate agent is going to say "oh well, you can live anywhere in tulsa district because your kid can just go to one of the best magnet schools....that is if they get in"  No, people are going to go with a sure thing, which is locate to the Jenks SE district or the owasso districts where they can send their kids without worry.
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brunoflipper
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« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2008, 02:03:52 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by cannon_fodder

quote:
Originally posted by RecycleMichael

First of all, the magnet school program has children from all over Tulsa, including many from north and east Tulsa.



RM, it should be noted that who you know seems to play a large role in enrollment at EIS.  Several of my friends "called in favors" to get their children in.  True or not I can't say, but why would someone who did so tell me that?  

And living just down the street from there, there is a disproportional number of Mercedes, BMW's and Lexus that go to and from the school.  It is probably largely due to educated parents caring more about education, but my guess is the overall student body is more affluent than the average Tulsan.  

PMCALK pretty well nails my take on the issue.

over 5% of eisenhower's student enrollment qualify for free school lunches...
it also has a pretty diverse ethnic mix- 1/3 white, 1/3 black, 1/4 hispanic... i see very few mercedi, lexi, and bimmers in that lot and i'm there every day...

try "calling in a favor" and see what it gets you, i know of two physicians whose kids did not make the cut...
« Last Edit: November 03, 2008, 02:17:45 pm by brunoflipper » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2008, 04:01:10 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by pmcalk

Where Carnegie & Eisenhower are located is irrelevant, since both draw students from all over the city (less than 50% of the kids from Carnegie come from the neighborhood).

The truth is the success of the schools is so much dependent upon the parents of the students.  Parents who want their children to have a good education seek out the best schools.  Parents who take the time to apply to magnet schools, or investigate which schools have the best test scores, are going to be the parents who make sure their kids get their homework done, who are going to meet with teachers to ensure their kids are learning, who are going to make sure their kids get to school every day on time.  The same is true for Jenks Southeast--many parents move there specifically for the school.  Parents who buy houses based upon school test scores are the parents who teach their kids to appreciate education.

So the kids that go to these schools are inclined to do well already.  Not that these aren't great schools, I just think much of what it measures is beyond the control of the schools.



PM shoots and scores big time.  There is no substitute for involved parents.

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