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Author Topic: Better Streetlights for Tulsa  (Read 458212 times)
Red Arrow
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« Reply #495 on: May 10, 2021, 01:27:39 pm »

IIRC gas turbines are relatively easy to start/stop. It's coal they have to keep going.

I don't remember from a tour long ago if the PSO Riverside plant in Jenks has any gas turbines.  They do have steam cycle turbines with the boilers fired by natural gas.

Just south of the PSO plant in Jenks is Green Country Energy.  They have 3 gas turbines.  https://jpowerusa.com/projects/green-country-energy/

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patric
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« Reply #496 on: May 10, 2021, 05:32:07 pm »

IIRC gas turbines are relatively easy to start/stop. It's coal they have to keep going.

Thank you, the clarification is appreciated.   
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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #497 on: May 11, 2021, 02:01:48 pm »

Yep, line losses are significant.  It's been a long time since I took Doc Strattan's course in power systems but transmission is an issue. 

However, the thing I was questioning/addressing was Patric's post indicating the expense of "restarting" generators if they were disconnected from the grid during off-peak hours.

From Patric, starting 04 Apr 2021


Yeah.  Lost track of him a long time ago.  Great Engineer, Instructor, Mentor!   That rarest of unicorns - a PhD with common sense and a WIDE range of capabilities. electrical and mechanical!!

Patric seemed to be getting at spinning turbines up and down may be an expense - it is.  But it is tiny compared to the losses elsewhere.  I don't remember any of the PSO people talking about spinning up and down as a common thing.  No real point to do that unless other service or something needed.

I was just getting at the fact of the really big losses compared to everything else.   We need no new generation in this country.  We need more maintenance on what we have and bigger wire!



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« Reply #498 on: May 11, 2021, 02:29:43 pm »


Yeah.  Lost track of him a long time ago.  Great Engineer, Instructor, Mentor!   That rarest of unicorns - a PhD with common sense and a WIDE range of capabilities. electrical and mechanical!!
Yep.  He's still around an kicking.  Heard from him through a mutual friend last February.

Quote
Patric seemed to be getting at spinning turbines up and down may be an expense - it is.  But it is tiny compared to the losses elsewhere.  I don't remember any of the PSO people talking about spinning up and down as a common thing.  No real point to do that unless other service or something needed.

I was just getting at the fact of the really big losses compared to everything else.   We need no new generation in this country.  We need more maintenance on what we have and bigger wire!

Too bad copper is so expensive.
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patric
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« Reply #499 on: May 11, 2021, 05:13:18 pm »


Patric seemed to be getting at spinning turbines up and down may be an expense - it is.  But it is tiny compared to the losses elsewhere.  I don't remember any of the PSO people talking about spinning up and down as a common thing.  No real point to do that unless other service or something needed.


If we venture back to the original topic, PSO uses the streetlight system to ballast its excess generating capacity at night, and the franchise agreement with the city has traditionally been geared to facilitate it.  That is exactly what PSO told me when I made my report to the Mayors Performance Team in 2003.
Nothing nefarious implied, just business. 
Since then, a lot more people are plugging in their cars to charge during those off-peak hours, gradually making the ballasting aspect of older inefficient streetlights less and less relevant to the franchise.

It would be a mistake to re-up the current agreement for another term without taking into account advances in technology.
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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #500 on: May 16, 2021, 01:45:08 pm »

Yep.  He's still around an kicking.  Heard from him through a mutual friend last February.

Too bad copper is so expensive.


Most of the big losses are steel and aluminum cables.  Yeah, copper is just stupid.  Like lumber.
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« Reply #501 on: May 16, 2021, 01:46:30 pm »

If we venture back to the original topic, PSO uses the streetlight system to ballast its excess generating capacity at night, and the franchise agreement with the city has traditionally been geared to facilitate it.  That is exactly what PSO told me when I made my report to the Mayors Performance Team in 2003.
Nothing nefarious implied, just business.  
Since then, a lot more people are plugging in their cars to charge during those off-peak hours, gradually making the ballasting aspect of older inefficient streetlights less and less relevant to the franchise.

It would be a mistake to re-up the current agreement for another term without taking into account advances in technology.


I know the lighting part of my bill is tiny due to all LED around the place.  Couple of solar panels and I would be good to go for that part.  Gotta love technology!




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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

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patric
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« Reply #502 on: October 29, 2021, 11:26:38 am »

City planning upgrades at crosswalks along 15th Street after pedestrian struck, killed leaving fair

Jose Luis Calzada-Gutierrez, 51, was hit in a crosswalk just outside Tulsa State Fairgrounds’ Gate 8 on Sunday evening, Oct. 3, at Urbana Avenue.

The death of the father of three brought scrutiny to an area that often goes unnoticed in the background of seasonal events at the property, and police and city officials have looked into a wide range of contributing factors but say it's unlikely any will be pinpointed as the sole cause.

"In this case, there's not a smoking gun," said Lt. Justin Farley, supervisor of Tulsa Police Department's Riverside Division Selective Enforcement Unit.

However, a common denominator is the lack of lighting in the area. The crash occurred about 7:30 p.m., just after twilight ended, and in the absence of natural light, the area is almost tar-black.

Upon receipt of TPD’s traffic collision report, the city decided to partner with the Public Service Company of Oklahoma to install street lights on each side of the five crosswalks across 15th at Urbana, Sandusky, Quebec, New Haven and South Louisville Avenues. The installation will be at no cost to the city but will create new monthly energy costs, which will have to be added in budget allocations.

After a pedestrian was struck and killed in a dark crosswalk on 15th Street near Urbana, officials have proposed installing Rectangular Rapid Flashing Beacons in the area. RRFBs allow pedestrians to push a button to make warning lights flash while they’re crossing the road. Tulsans might be most familiar with them from high pedestrian traffic areas, like Cherry Street and Brookside.

City Traffic Engineer Kurt Kraft said such inventions were not available in the early 2000s when the road was enhanced, but they're on their way to becoming an industry standard, usurping the old-style constant flashing warning lights, which drivers eventually ignore.

"This, they see it flashing and they think, 'Oh, there might be someone actually there in the crosswalk,'" Kraft said.  

In an initial news release, police noted that Calzada-Gutierrez was wearing dark-colored clothing, which Farley said was not intended to place blame on the pedestrian but to support the statement that the involved driver couldn’t see him.

"It’s harder for the human eye to interpret the dark than anything that catches lighting or even a reflection of light," Farley said.

15th Street has a bit of a roll to it. The four-lane road with a wide, treed median carries drivers through slight dips and inclines over the crosswalks that connect the fairgrounds to an adjacent neighborhood. When installed during the road enhancement decades ago, the median was meant to give crossing pedestrians an island of safety mid-street, but it can also obscure pedestrians, Farley said.  

Heading westbound on 15th Street just below the 40 mph speed limit — as was the SUV that struck Calzada-Gutierrez — one can suddenly find themselves upon the Urbana Avenue crossing despite a proceeding warning sign: the crosswalk is at the apex of a small hill.

The driver of the SUV was distraught, Farley said, and stayed at the scene to talk with police. He told them he was looking forward through his windshield and driving about 35 mph when he suddenly saw someone walking in front of his vehicle. He said he braked and swerved left to try to avoid hitting him, but at that point, it was too late.

A witness who was driving a car behind the SUV told police he saw the pedestrian and had hoped the other driver did, too, according to the report.

One working theory: A pillar of the involved car — the support that’s wedged between the driver’s side window and front windshield — coupled with the low light to create a blind spot on the vehicle’s approach of Calzada-Gutierrez as he crossed the street.

Tree overgrowth could have also contributed. Kraft said he drove the route the day after the crash to find vegetation was blocking some of the pedestrian crossing warning signs for westbound drivers. Crews have since trimmed back branches in the area, where engineers are also reviewing the speed limit, according to Kraft.

The crosswalks on 15th Street are on a long list of other areas in the city traffic engineers hope to update with RRFBs when funding is secured. A set runs about $20,000, making the estimated cost to upgrade the 15th Street corridor behind the fairgrounds $100,000.


https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/city-planning-upgrades-at-crosswalks-along-15th-street-after-pedestrian-struck-killed-leaving-fair/article_b38ee550-2dcb-11ec-b35d-bf5c712d818c.html

The massive amount of glare from the fairgrounds overwhelms any lighting on 15th regardless; odd that this was never considered or even mentioned.

If its PSO's plan to just install more of the older, high-glare lights that fill their warehouse, then nothing will be accomplished other than PSO sells more electricity. Glare reduction is more important than just blindly adding light; we should demand low glare "Full Cutoff" lights like Cherry Street.

« Last Edit: October 29, 2021, 11:30:28 am by patric » Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
patric
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« Reply #503 on: November 26, 2021, 09:39:13 pm »

With the onset of longer, winter nights, it seems almost routine to blame traffic mishaps on "the dark" or "not enough streetlights."
Unlike the newspaper, broadcasters treat soundbites from authorities as golden:


TULSA, Okla. (KTUL) — Tulsa police say a man is in critical condition after he was hit by a car near 41st and Harvard late Wednesday night.

Officers were called to the scene around 11 p.m.

Police say the victim, who appears to be in his mid-50s, stepped into the road in a dimly lit area.

The driver wasn't able to stop in time, but stayed on scene and called for help.

Investigators say the driver will not face any charges.



Here are photos from the same story. Its 11pm and that orange glow bathing the street isnt the sunrise. In fact, they are actually parked under working streetlights:





https://goo.gl/maps/qBVfbgG57Lz3GByB8
https://goo.gl/maps/yanN1CtJ2HehbnX56

We dont need more streetlights; we need better streetlights.

« Last Edit: November 26, 2021, 09:50:35 pm by patric » Logged

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Red Arrow
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« Reply #504 on: November 26, 2021, 11:15:12 pm »

We dont need more streetlights; we need better streetlights.

My neighbors could also use security lights that don't impair my ability to see towards their house.

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patric
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« Reply #505 on: November 27, 2021, 11:04:40 am »

My neighbors could also use security lights that don't impair my ability to see towards their house.

I imagine anyone giving sound to a broadcaster isnt allowed to use the word "glare" out of respect to their unions big donor.

Inviting the neighbor over some evening for coffee and a view from your window of their "security" could be, well, illuminating.  In my experiences I've found the majority of homeowners arent malicious about their light trespass, but convinced by this type of propaganda that they are helping their neighbors by spreading around their light.

Its upsetting that the franchise agreement the city is making with PSO is only to upgrade expressway lights, when the entire city is in need of glare abatement.
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patric
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« Reply #506 on: March 14, 2022, 10:19:57 pm »

Good news:  Tulsa has been slowly installing shielded LED streetlights.
Bad news:  The ones they chose have too much blue, and they seem to not be able to install them level.

Here's why that matters...



Sleeping with even a small amount of light may harm your health, study says

 (CNN) Sleeping for only one night with a dim light, such as a TV set with the sound off, raised the blood sugar and heart rate of healthy young people participating in a sleep lab experiment, a new study found.

The dim light entered the eyelids and disrupted sleep despite the fact that participants slept with their eyes closed, said study author Dr. Phyllis Zee, director of the Center for Circadian and Sleep Medicine at Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine.

Heart rate typically drops at night, slowing down as the the brain is busy repairing and rejuvenating the body. An elevated heart rate at night has been shown in numerous studies to be a risk factor for future heart disease and early death.

High blood sugar levels are a sign of insulin resistance, where the body stops using glucose properly and the pancreas goes into overdrive, flooding the body with extra insulin to overcompensate until it eventually loses its ability to do so. Over time, insulin resistance can ultimately lead to Type 2 diabetes.

Prior research has shown an association between artificial light at night and weight gain and obesity, disruptions in metabolic function, insulin secretion and the development of diabetes, and cardiovascular risk factors.

"Why would sleeping with your lights on affect your metabolism? Could that explain why there is a higher prevalence of diabetes or obesity (in society)?" Zee asked.  Zee and her team took 20 healthy people in their 20s and had them spend two nights in a sleep lab. The first night was spent in a darkened room where "you wouldn't be able to see much, if anything, when your eyes were open," Zee said.

A randomized portion of the group repeated that same light level for a second night in the lab, while another group slept with a dim overhead light with a glow roughly equivalent to "a very, very dark, cloudy day or street lights coming in through a window," Zee said.
"Now these people were asleep with their eyelids closed," she explained. "In the literature the estimation is that about 5% to 10% of the light in the environment would actually get through the closed lid to the eye, so this is really not a lot of light."

Yet even that tiny amount of light created a deficit of slow wave and rapid eye movement sleep, the stages of slumber in which most cellular renewal occurs, Zee said.

In addition, heart rate was higher, insulin resistance rose, and the sympathetic (fight or flight) and parasympathetic (rest and relax) nervous systems were unbalanced, which has been linked to higher blood pressure in healthy people.
The light was not bright enough, however, to raise levels of melatonin in the body, Zee added. The study was published Monday in the journal of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

What advice would Zee give people based on her study and existing research in the field? Close your blinds and curtains, turn off all the lights, and consider using a sleep mask.
"I think the strength of the evidence is that you should clearly pay attention to the light in your bedroom," she said. "Make sure that you start dimming your lights at least an hour or two before you go to bed to prepare your environment for sleep."

Check your bedroom for sources of light that are not necessary, she added. If a night light is needed, keep it dim and at floor level, "so that it's more reflected rather than right next to your eye or bed level," she suggested.

Also be aware of the type of light you have in your bedroom, she added, and ban any lights in the blue spectrum, such as those emitted by electronic devices like televisions, smartphones, tablets and laptops.

"Blue light is the most stimulating type of light," Zee said. "If you have to have a light on for safety reasons, change the color. You want to choose lights that have more reddish or brownish (amber) tones."


https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/14/health/sleeping-lights-danger-wellness/index.html
https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2113290119

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patric
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« Reply #507 on: March 30, 2022, 02:46:34 pm »

Here are the streetlights AEP chose to replace the current sodium lights:

https://www.cooperlighting.com/global/brands/streetworks/901207/arch-archeon-small-cobrahead-roadway-luminaire

They are a good choice *IF* you order the right configuration.

Right now we have just begun installing the default blue-rich color, which is 4000K.
When you look at the specs, this product family is available in warmer colors than the default welding-torch choice, from 3000K down to 2700K and 2200K.

2700K would be ideal city-wide, especially in residential areas because it is indistinguishable from the color of household incandescent light.
The 2200K is more amber and would be a good choice for sensitive areas like the river parks and the zoo, but I could see some upscale neighborhoods choosing the warmer color for the enhanced aesthetic.

Also, the 3000K and below colors have better Backlight/Uplight/Glare performance than the bluer lights, as well, with only a negligible difference in efficacy.

Ive addressed this with my district councilor who appears interested in pursuing this, hopefully before we commit too far into installing the bluer ones that other cities have had to replace because of public outcry over the garish color.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2022, 02:51:04 pm by patric » Logged

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« Reply #508 on: April 14, 2022, 11:01:58 am »

I wouldn't discount 2200K too much. It proved to be well liked in the residential and commercial areas of Pepperill, MA. The cost for going 2200K was no higher than 2700K, at least in Pepperell's case. You might be able to incorporate more 2200K than just a few handfuls of lights in parks and upscale neighborhoods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8HKaye8Uog&t=1754s
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patric
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« Reply #509 on: April 14, 2022, 09:46:44 pm »

I wouldn't discount 2200K too much. It proved to be well liked in the residential and commercial areas of Pepperill, MA. The cost for going 2200K was no higher than 2700K, at least in Pepperell's case. You might be able to incorporate more 2200K than just a few handfuls of lights in parks and upscale neighborhoods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8HKaye8Uog&t=1754s



Public Service Company of Oklahoma sofar has not warmed to the idea of warmer lighting. A spokesman defended the blue-rich light choice as "neutral white" and "the best available LED option for visibility" despite the data sheets saying otherwise.

https://www.cooperlighting.com/global/brands/streetworks/901207/arch-archeon-small-cobrahead-roadway-luminaire#PSG

The Color Rendering Index is the same for the 4000K and the 2700K versions, and the Lumens-per-watt efficacy is virtually the same.  This was certainly not the case a decade ago but PSO seems to be relying on the outdated federal guidance that resulted in a number communities having to replace their DOE early-adopter LEDs that upset residents with their ghastly blue parlor.

When Tulsans start seeing 4000K lights shining thru their bedroom windows, I would expect something just short of pitchforks and torches (incandescent, of course) at city council meetings, and the cost for our do-overs may strip whatever savings the city had hoped for by switching to LED in the first place.

I still recommend 2700K as a baseline color temperature but yes I could totally see 2200K in residential areas.  Correcting the bad color would be a simple matter of changing a number on the order, but its something we should do sooner than later.


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