A grassroots organization focused on the intelligent and sustainable development, preservation and revitalization of Tulsa.
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 25, 2017, 03:46:55 am
Pages: 1 ... 26 27 [28] 29 30 31   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Better Streetlights for Tulsa  (Read 110915 times)
Cetary
Activist
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 73


« Reply #405 on: April 01, 2017, 11:10:32 pm »

I'm all for passive road lighting measures now that I've witnessed a state DOT invest in expensive continuous expressway lights and neglect their road markings. In the dark and winter we were having is was impossible to where you were going on the roads even during the daytime when the only thing covering the road was mostly a layer of just water, as a testiment to how badly detrioted the markings were. I genuinely felt unsafe even during the daytime not being able to see any of the markings. Yet some seem to think that the answer is somehow blue rich LEDs, a mostly cosmetic safety feature on highways when compared to REAL traffic safety device like RPMs and retro-reflective paint.



Notice how because of specular reflection most of the horizontal luminance is ineffective while the vertical retro-reflectivity is still effective. Specular reflection is what happens when roads get slick from rain, most of the light bounces forwards making the road surface *seem* darker then on a dry night. It also helps to explain increased glare on rainy nights. Bear in mind verticle target luminance is still effective because of the the light hitting a target vertically should still mostly bounce back to the observer though not as effectively as the retro-reflectors. Patric can correct me on this.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2017, 11:17:47 pm by Cetary » Logged
Cetary
Activist
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 73


« Reply #406 on: April 09, 2017, 09:34:26 pm »

Found a couple more pictures of some warm white lights. These are ceramic metal halide from Philips the CDM-TT with a warm color temperature of 3000 kelvin. Bear in mind these are only meant to show off color temperature not optics. The correct optics for these lights would have the bulbs tucked up into the fixture.



« Last Edit: April 09, 2017, 09:36:32 pm by Cetary » Logged
Cetary
Activist
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 73


« Reply #407 on: April 14, 2017, 01:20:15 pm »

Found some pictures of some more PC Amber LED fixtures. These have the prismatic optics on them like the GE Evolve ERS line except these fixtures are a nature/circadian friendly amber light.

https://goo.gl/images/I1JQWb

It's so shocking that those fixtures aren't HPS. I really like the tight optical control of the fixtures. It looks like the went with an asymmetric forewords distribution with the lights in the first picture. What that means is that the bulk of the light the fixtures are producing is getting sent one direction, forwards, creating a fixture that "throws" light forwards when the fixture is mounted level. The more correct term would be distributes light forwards. I bring these in particular up as some of the main thought processes behind continuing to justify glaring and largely ineffective house based flood lighting is that the low glare fixtures don't "seem" to throw light out forwards which this first picture helps to illustrate is false logic. It's a matter of appropriate choice of fixture optics.







https://goo.gl/images/FWxkrz

https://goo.gl/images/wxWjwB

https://goo.gl/images/uJTbQ7

These fixtures are from a vendor known as Innolumis. They appear to serve the European markets, maybe kindly asking and they would supply fixtures with drivers that would work on the US mains?
« Last Edit: April 14, 2017, 02:25:04 pm by Cetary » Logged
Cetary
Activist
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 73


« Reply #408 on: April 25, 2017, 09:42:43 pm »

I just had to share this ad from Cree. Mmm, boy does it really give a visualization of what I almost feel I want to do when I see the high glare blue-rich white junk, sarcasm added.XD

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wgi9uPvNHY

www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmD94UlUfQU

For the most part that Philips Iriduim is pretty much beaten in the US market by the RSW, it's not to say that the Mini-Irdium is a bad fixture, it isn't, it's just that for small scale residential, the RSW is our domestic go to.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 09:47:53 pm by Cetary » Logged
patric
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 6332


These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #409 on: April 25, 2017, 10:53:31 pm »

Locally, Ive noticed Tulsa County is trying to make the Golden Driller golden again.  
They had recently switched from High Pressure Sodium to "white" LEDs and it was gawdawful (blue).
Ill have to look closer next time but they are trying to get his proper color back again, either with amber LEDs or some gel filters.

Much improved.
Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
Cetary
Activist
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 73


« Reply #410 on: April 25, 2017, 11:08:19 pm »

Filters on top of cool white LEDs results in a really ugly greenish light. Going down a couple hundred kelvin seems to yield much better results. This is about what to expect when filtering blue rich LEDs down several thousand kelvin



The picture also contrasts against the PC Amber LEDs to the right which you can see have no green-ish color.
Logged
Weatherdemon
Civic Leader
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 365


« Reply #411 on: May 02, 2017, 11:56:45 am »

I'm all for passive road lighting measures now that I've witnessed a state DOT invest in expensive continuous expressway lights and neglect their road markings. In the dark and winter we were having is was impossible to where you were going on the roads even during the daytime when the only thing covering the road was mostly a layer of just water, as a testiment to how badly detrioted the markings were. I genuinely felt unsafe even during the daytime not being able to see any of the markings. Yet some seem to think that the answer is somehow blue rich LEDs, a mostly cosmetic safety feature on highways when compared to REAL traffic safety device like RPMs and retro-reflective paint.



Notice how because of specular reflection most of the horizontal luminance is ineffective while the vertical retro-reflectivity is still effective. Specular reflection is what happens when roads get slick from rain, most of the light bounces forwards making the road surface *seem* darker then on a dry night. It also helps to explain increased glare on rainy nights. Bear in mind verticle target luminance is still effective because of the the light hitting a target vertically should still mostly bounce back to the observer though not as effectively as the retro-reflectors. Patric can correct me on this.

Most of the restriping done in the last 5 years was done with what seems like basically white spray paint. It's a super thin layer that fades in just a few months and doesn't have the thickness and reflectivity to be of any use in rain and only of little use at night.
It is scary and I have no idea how that meets any safety requirements.
Logged
Cetary
Activist
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 73


« Reply #412 on: May 02, 2017, 09:15:34 pm »

Certain state DOTs, like Arizona DOT, will actually use retro-reflective tape instead of paint that has better retro-reflectivity and durability then just retro-reflective paint. They'll even recess the tape to protect it from snowplows. Btw, in climates with snow, restriping the paint should be performed about once every year or once every two years with a setup that only uses paint and no countersinking of the stripes.

https://www.azdot.gov/mobile/media/blog/posts/2013/01/25/transportation-defined-recessed-pavement-markers

Rumble strips are also overlooked and if correctly implemented are a real boon as they can even be effective in whiteout conditions. They had a setup in California I really liked that had the double yellows really wide, had a rumble strip down the middle and retro-reflective raised pavement markers flanking the center strip with the double yellows on the very outer edge. It definitely felt like one of the safest setups of a two lane I've ever been on.

I've heard of people describing freshly equipped roads with new RPMs and rr-striping as being on a "runway".

« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 09:19:38 pm by Cetary » Logged
patric
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 6332


These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #413 on: May 02, 2017, 11:46:51 pm »

Most of the restriping done in the last 5 years was done with what seems like basically white spray paint. It's a super thin layer that fades in just a few months and doesn't have the thickness and reflectivity to be of any use in rain and only of little use at night.
It is scary and I have no idea how that meets any safety requirements.

In places you can find the Polyurea/thermoplastic markings, but for the most part its the white spray paint with glass beads.
The later do need to be maintained more than we currently do.

The Broken Arrow Expressway was just re-marked.  In the absence of the overhead Sodium lights (thanks, copper thieves) the thick reflective markings really pop.


Now changing lanes briefly...

How do you solve the issue of individuals who believe taxpayers should subsidize their yard light?
http://www.fox23.com/video?videoId=518719231&videoVersion=1.0



Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
Cetary
Activist
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 73


« Reply #414 on: May 07, 2017, 11:23:34 pm »

More incandescent like ,2700-3000k, warm white LEDs They blend quite nicely with the classic architecture.



To continue off of that, Chicago has elected to go with warm white LEDs, 3000k>, for its citywide refit.

http://www.chicagomag.com/city-life/April-2017/Its-Really-Hard-to-Figure-Out-What-Color-a-Citys-Streetlights-Should-Be/

I find Toronto's determined resistance to the cold and metallic mercury vapor lighting particularly intreguiging. A true widespread holdout of the incandescent street lighting technology.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 11:31:43 pm by Cetary » Logged
heironymouspasparagus
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 11121



« Reply #415 on: May 08, 2017, 07:56:51 am »

In places you can find the Polyurea/thermoplastic markings, but for the most part its the white spray paint with glass beads.
The later do need to be maintained more than we currently do.

The Broken Arrow Expressway was just re-marked.  In the absence of the overhead Sodium lights (thanks, copper thieves) the thick reflective markings really pop.


Now changing lanes briefly...

How do you solve the issue of individuals who believe taxpayers should subsidize their yard light?
http://www.fox23.com/video?videoId=518719231&videoVersion=1.0







I think they are asking about neighborhood street lights rather than yard lights.

The light count in my neighborhood is half what it was when we moved in.  Probably still adequate - it's such a poor little area that burglars tend to drop stuff off in pity, rather than take it away!


Logged

“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
patric
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 6332


These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #416 on: May 09, 2017, 08:56:15 am »


I think they are asking about neighborhood street lights rather than yard lights.


I was making reference to some folks elsewhere that objected to their city shielding streetlights because they didnt light up their front yard as well... as opposed to people who would practically give up their firstborn just to have the opportunity to decide how their property was lighted.
Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
heironymouspasparagus
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 11121



« Reply #417 on: May 09, 2017, 10:12:00 am »

I was making reference to some folks elsewhere that objected to their city shielding streetlights because they didnt light up their front yard as well... as opposed to people who would practically give up their firstborn just to have the opportunity to decide how their property was lighted.



Oh, man....was giving up first born an option??   Geez, I wish I have known before making THAT investment!!  How about 2nd?    (Don't tell them I said that...!!)

Logged

“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
Cetary
Activist
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 73


« Reply #418 on: June 04, 2017, 10:42:43 pm »

Found another interesting article on color temperature from the IES.

http://www.iesphl.org/single-post/2017/01/04/Lighting-for-Seniors-Study-Produces-Startling-Results

I realize that this is about indoor lighting in a senior care facility, but the same principles of melatonin and associated ciricadian effects still apply to streetlighting​. Though, depending on one's proximity to blue-rich LED street lights and their intensity, ymmv.That being said they used a system that reduced kelvin rating at night. Here are some of their results..

*agitated behaviors such as yelling and crying decreased among three residents studied;
* the need for psychotropic and sleep medications was significantly reduced for one of the residents;
* the number of recorded patient falls decreased in the corridor studied; and
* according to ACC staff, residents whose rooms were located elsewhere were now “hanging out” in the LED-illuminated corridor.
 
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 10:46:03 pm by Cetary » Logged
Cetary
Activist
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 73


« Reply #419 on: June 10, 2017, 11:17:29 am »

Looks like the industry is taking note. GE appears to no longer be openly marketing 5000k streetlighting on their spec. sheets, thank gosh 5000k is awful everywhere at night. A first for a manufacturer as well! Cree is now the first manufacturer to offer 2700k for its cobrahead models, the RSW, without the city having to "special order" it.

http://volt.org/cautiously-optimistic-live-from-lightfair-2017/

I personally am really excited about this. A would genuinely feel comfortable living next to something like a 2700k RSW. Especially more so given the refracting lenses on that fixture allow the LEDs to be tucked up into the fixture without compromising optical controls.

By the looks of the new crib sheets for the RSW they're also still pushing around 100 lumens per watt even at 2700k. There really is no reasoning to be still installing the 4000k glare bombs.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2017, 11:28:14 am by Cetary » Logged
Pages: 1 ... 26 27 [28] 29 30 31   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

 
  Hosted by TulsaConnect and Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
 

Mission

 

"TulsaNow's Mission is to help Tulsa become the most vibrant, diverse, sustainable and prosperous city of our size. We achieve this by focusing on the development of Tulsa's distinctive identity and economic growth around a dynamic, urban core, complemented by a constellation of livable, thriving communities."
more...

 

Contact

 

2210 S Main St.
Tulsa, OK 74114
(918) 409-2669
info@tulsanow.org