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November 21, 2017, 08:00:50 pm
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Author Topic: Better Streetlights for Tulsa  (Read 110564 times)
Hoss
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« Reply #390 on: February 09, 2017, 05:53:22 pm »

ODOT for Interstates, Tulsa Public Works for expressways.

Its scrap aluminum, im sure people would volunteer...  Roll Eyes

Keep in mind the south and east legs of the IDL are covered by ODOT as it is technically an interstate.
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« Reply #391 on: February 10, 2017, 11:50:22 pm »

Thought I'd share another PC Amber LED installation. I'd imagine this sort of lighting would be quite appropriate for the Gathering Place. I'd also like to see the potential inclusion of PC Amber LEDs in a more general use role, like possibly in residential lighting.





More pics and the company responsible for the install.

https://adlt.com.au/case/tooway-bridge/
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patric
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« Reply #392 on: February 11, 2017, 10:35:34 am »

Thought I'd share another PC Amber LED installation. I'd imagine this sort of lighting would be quite appropriate for the Gathering Place. I'd also like to see the potential inclusion of PC Amber LEDs in a more general use role, like possibly in residential lighting.



https://adlt.com.au/case/tooway-bridge/

Quote
A high level of lighting was required for the pedestrian path so that residence and locals could feel safe while using the facilities. However the lighting had to have minimal impact on the local fauna in particular local turtle populations.

Vendors in years past convinced cities to get rid of their "yellow" lights in favor of "white" lights that arent really white.  That was mainly because what they were marketing was blue-rich light and everyone was supposed to be happier with the blue than the yellow.  Of course, when they started making the warmer-white light they dropped that spiel.

On the banks of the Arkansas River, we have endangered avian critters, so turtle-friendly lighting would not be just for turtles.  Given the insanely bright blue-rich LED lights they have already installed on Riverside Drive, I dont know if wildlife was ever a consideration of The Gathering Place lighting.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 10:38:22 am by patric » Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
Cetary
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« Reply #393 on: February 26, 2017, 10:54:26 pm »

Looks like San Diego is using the 3000 kelvin version of the GE Evolve,

I linked it, the pic is massive

http://www.sandiegocounty.gov/content/dam/sdc/dpw/SPECIAL_ASSESSMENT_DISTRICTS/docs/LED_Streetlight_Replacements_M_Krosky_Cropped.JPG

but...only within a 30 mile radius of the Palomar Oberservitory, sigh. They're using 4000 kelvin everywhere else en masse downtown and everywhere else. I bet it took some serious arm twisting on the part of the observitory to even get 3000 kelvin. It's really bad that the appropriate and good looking warm white light isn't standard citywide, but instead one has to have the privilege of living near the observitory to get.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 11:55:27 pm by Cetary » Logged
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« Reply #394 on: March 10, 2017, 12:15:24 am »

Apparently these are warm white LEDs. The lights are supposedly mounted in the bottom of each fixture shooting light upwards to a diffuser/reflector. They look really pleasant. They look like the warm 2700 kelvin light.



Btw, Leotek will provide 2700k cobraheads upon request. The warm white lights beats the pants off the old blue-rich mercury vapor/LED technology.

http://www.lighting-gallery.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=98713&fullsize=1

It's a bit easier now to see why people like the warm white lighting the best. Shame on New York and Seattle for going with the prison yard-like 4000k+ light. It's like civic vandalism, imo.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 12:19:43 am by Cetary » Logged
Cetary
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« Reply #395 on: March 10, 2017, 11:56:38 pm »

I found another installation of the PC Amber LED in street lighting. People have compared the look of PC Amber to HPS, and no these are not the "before" pics. they are the after pictures after the icky blue-rich mercury vapor lamps were retired. I'd actually say they look closer to the so called mercury free HPS lamps that have a bit more yellowish coloration. I would link the pictures directly, but they're a bit too large.

http://www.carandini.com/en/news/post/led-zonae1/
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 12:03:33 am by Cetary » Logged
patric
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« Reply #396 on: March 14, 2017, 08:29:37 am »

City of Monterey loses lawsuit over streetlights

The city of Monterey might have to turn down the lights. Monterey County Superior Court Judge Lydia Villarreal ruled Dec. 20 that the city violated both the California Environmental Quality Act and the Brown Act when it started to install energy-efficient LED streetlights in 2009.

A suit was brought against the city in 2012 by a group of residents calling themselves Turn Down The Lights, who claimed the LED bulbs were significantly brighter than the ones they replaced, and that the city had failed to conduct an environmental review before making the change.

“The judge’s decision is an important one,” says Molly Erickson, an attorney who represents Turn Down The Lights. “It addresses the issues of public notice and citizen participation when it comes to environmental impacts.”

Erickson also notes the June 2016 statement issued by the the American Medical Association warning of adverse consequences of blue-rich LEDs that increases nighttime glare and reduce the sleep-hormone melatonin, which can lead to sleep problems.

Turn Down The Lights is not opposed to LEDs and energy-efficient lighting, Erickson says, but the group believes that there are different LED formats and lighting temperatures a proper review would have likely found more appropriate.

The city of Monterey had claimed the new lights and fixtures were exempt from CEQA, which the judge found to be incorrect. In the process of litigation, the city was also found to be in violation of the Brown Act.

“[T]he city of Monterey’s agenda omitted key information concerning characteristics with potential environmental impacts,” Villarreal wrote in her intended decision.

And because the city's agenda failed to show officials were treating the lighting change as exempt from CEQA, “It violated the Brown Act,” the judge concluded.

As of July 2016, the city of Monterey had saved roughly $70,000 annually in energy bills since 2012 by switching to LED streetlights. Yet, during that same time the city incurred $80,000 in legal bills fighting Turn Down The Lights in court. Having lost the preliminary ruling, the city will likely be on the hook for the plaintiff's legal fees too.

The Monterey City Council will consider the city’s options—which could include filing an appeal—in closed session at the Jan. 17 meeting.

Villarreal’s final decision, expected in the coming months, will likely require the city of Monterey to conduct public environmental reviews for the LED lights installed in 2012 and prior.



http://www.montereycountyweekly.com/blogs/news_blog/city-of-monterey-loses-lawsuit-over-streetlights/article_89e8e764-d3b2-11e6-b53b-935d775754e7.html
https://www.wsj.com/articles/as-led-streetlights-spread-some-critics-look-for-dimmer-switch-1473818463


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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
Cetary
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« Reply #397 on: March 25, 2017, 10:23:39 pm »

I hate to be an ad for Philips lighting, but here are some of their warm white Master Class LEDs. The light levels are a bit high, and the color temperature I still feel is a bit high, but otherwise a big improvement over the daylight 4000k+ LEDs.



They won't let me link these directly.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/philipsoem/4839658293/in/photostream/

Btw, I went to Monterey personally. They were a really early adopter then of the blue-rich​ technology. It looked awful, I assume it still does since the switch from HPS. Interestingly, one of the early arguments from Turn Down The Lights was that the nighttime asthetic was ruined by the 5000k+ lights particularly in the spanish historical downtown district. Though they had to drop that as they couldn't, at the time find any tangible evidence that ugly lights would hurt the city. Though, with what we know, an argument from the asthetics standpoint, one could well argue that creating a hostile and uninviting nighttime environment reduces friendly eyes thus compromising security from natural surveillance. Further, there may also be some merit to an argument that un-attractive nighttime lighting also costs businesses lost customers, though that would be a bit harder to quantify for a court.
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« Reply #398 on: March 27, 2017, 09:11:32 am »

Always alternatives to Acorns:

http://www.caribonigroup.com/en/products/urban/post-top/agathos-post-top/

These come in color temperatures all the way down to 2200K (which are ideal for riverside) and are "learning" fixtures.
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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
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« Reply #399 on: March 29, 2017, 01:48:49 pm »

Looks like the blue-rich 4000 kelvin LED street lights are making inroads into Rome, and not everyone is happy.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/27/world/europe/rome-streetlights-led-lights.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0

ROME — As far as guided tours of central Rome go, this one was a downer.

“Look over there, at that ‘Virgin and Child,’ with that ugly lamp above it, casting such a harsh outline,” said Nathalie Naim, a municipal council member, pointing to a framed image on a wall.

Near the Colosseum, another outrage. “This used to produce a light with a golden halo, that soft and welcoming light that envelops you,” Ms. Naim lamented, nodding to one of the cast-iron lampposts

that dot the city center. Alas, no more.

“I don’t want to make this personal,” Ms. Naim said, dramatically covering her eyes while passing through a bar-lined piazza, “but these horrible lights, mamma mia!..”

The worst part about this all is that could've all been easily avoided by the choice of low CCT LED, 2200k-2800K, and they still would have saved energy. It still can as they're in the process of swapping out the lamps to. 
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« Reply #400 on: March 30, 2017, 09:33:21 pm »

I just want to point out that this conversation has been going for 8 years and 6 months.
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« Reply #401 on: March 30, 2017, 10:21:37 pm »

I just want to point out that this conversation has been going for 8 years and 6 months.

Do we have better streetlights yet?
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« Reply #402 on: March 31, 2017, 10:13:26 am »

I just want to point out that this conversation has been going for 8 years and 6 months.


The more things change, the more they stay the same....


Actually, they don't change - they just stay the same.  Ex. Bynum same as Dewby....
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« Reply #403 on: March 31, 2017, 10:46:36 am »

Do we have better streetlights yet?

Yes and no.
We have made some inroads --
We now have a zoning ordinance that recognizes "Light Trespass" and glare, and allows you to complain about some bad lights (but streetlights are exempt).
We have replaced some glare-prone streetlights with shielded lights, but its the exception, not the rule or a plan we can rely on.
We have jumped on the LED energy efficiency bandwagon for some streetlight replacements (but they are older technology that produces poor color) and we have interpreted the increased energy efficiency as a way to keep the energy consumption about the same but ratchet up the brightness to unnecessarily high levels.

What hasnt really changed is the city still gets its lighting expertise from vendors anxious to unload their product.
Otherwise we would be paying more attention to the quality of the light, than how bright we can get or how pretty the fixtures are in the daytime.

We have the opportunity to re-create the look and feel of the early incandescent lights you used to see in oil-boom neighborhoods like Maple Ridge; not just the brightness but the color and optical effect.  
With some glaring exceptions, I suspect the city is holding off on residential areas because they are aware of the failures of other cities when installing welding-torch-like lights closer to people's bedroom windows.  Having to go back and swap out blue-rich lights for warmer lights pretty much wiped out their initial savings.

The new unshielded, over-spec'd, high color temperature streetlights on Riverside Drive south of 41st are a good example of a bad direction that needs to be re-evaluated immediately.
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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
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« Reply #404 on: March 31, 2017, 11:14:20 am »

The more things change, the more they stay the same....

Actually, they don't change - they just stay the same.  Ex. Bynum same as Dewby....



The first phase of the Broken Arrow Expressway will be from Peoria Avenue to roughly the 21st Street exit. Plans call for LED lighting and aluminum wiring.
http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/city-tulsa-takes-steps-get-highways-relit-faster

Granted most of the continuous (end-to-end) lighting us really unnecessary (accident rates dropped slightly with the lights out when motorists sped less), starting from scratch is a good opportunity to get it right "the first time."

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE dont line the BA with blue-ish glare bombs.
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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
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