A grassroots organization focused on the intelligent and sustainable development, preservation and revitalization of Tulsa.
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 24, 2017, 09:45:30 pm
Pages: 1 ... 21 22 [23] 24 25 ... 31   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Better Streetlights for Tulsa  (Read 110885 times)
patric
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 6332


These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #330 on: July 22, 2016, 08:53:52 am »

There was a good story on "State Impact Oklahoma" about the blue LED.
https://stateimpact.npr.org/oklahoma/2016/07/21/as-cities-in-oklahoma-update-streetlights-with-leds-doctors-warn-about-road-ahead/

What they never mention is why cities want the blue lights?

They are told that by the vendors who sell them, and they dont research further.

The argument lies in the energy savings motive to upgrade; until recently the blue-rich LEDs produce more Lumens-per-Watt so hey why not get more bang for the buck?   The citizens will be so happy we are saving electricity they wont mind having an arc-welder outside their window.

The technology behind LEDs continues to advance, and the efficacy gap between warm white LEDs (think incandescent or candlelight) and the blue-rich LEDs continues to close.   Right now, there is much less energy justification to use older blue-rich technology, but the vendors keep pushing "Oh you want 'white' light, right?" despite the growing body of evidence that the blue-rich light at night is not only biologically adverse but aesthetically unfavorable.

Before it was dumped, the Form Based Code called for lighting to be 3000K or less (degrees Kelvin, or the "color temperature") with lower numbers containing less blue spectra... but that FBC boat was torpedoed.


One of the TNC members sent me a pic of when Tulsa switched from Incandescent streetlights to Mercury Vapor, and everyone was pissed at loosing the warm street look to the sickly blue-green pallor of progress.  With LEDs we can get that back.
Its just a matter of picking the right fixtures and not putting all our decisions in the hands of someone on commission.
 
Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
patric
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 6332


These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #331 on: July 31, 2016, 10:39:33 am »

Drifting a bit to show some cool drone video of the LED lights at the TransOk building downtown:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ky1hfyuUoE

The building was always known for its exterior lighting, but I should point out that old photos show the building lit from the top down.
Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
sauerkraut
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3215


I Conquered The 2013 -2015 Polar Bear Plunge!!


« Reply #332 on: July 31, 2016, 01:22:21 pm »

I strongly prefer the bluer LEDs--  on the "K" scale that's 5000K & up I don't like the yellowish incandescent look. As for the street lights and  road construction the  street lighting has been a mess under Dewy since he took office  toss in homeless  people begging and sleeping at freeway ramps part of the reason I supported GT over Dewy.
Logged

Proud Global  Warming Deiner! Earth Is Getting Colder NOT Warmer!
Cetary
Activist
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 73


« Reply #333 on: July 31, 2016, 06:00:04 pm »

Judging by some of these posts, I'm just guessing the people of Brooklyn aren't really digging their blow-torch like 4,000+ kelvin LED lights.

http://pardonmeforasking.blogspot.com/2016/03/lets-hear-it-brooklyn-neighbors-what-do.html?m=1

"The harsh and cold light makes the neighborhood feel alienating and ugly. The lights themselves are painful to look directly into. I don't see how these are even safe. It is totally unacceptable.."

"The new LED lights are clinical and bright that distract from the historic character of neighborhoods they have been installed. "

"This definitely could be executed so much better than it has been. There could be additional shading, different color LED bulbs or more care so the lights are directed down rather than angled in a way so light is streaming so directly right into buildings. Right now everything is bathed in a sickening blue/white glow."
Logged
heironymouspasparagus
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 11121



« Reply #334 on: August 01, 2016, 07:59:05 am »

They are told that by the vendors who sell them, and they dont research further.

The argument lies in the energy savings motive to upgrade; until recently the blue-rich LEDs produce more Lumens-per-Watt so hey why not get more bang for the buck?   The citizens will be so happy we are saving electricity they wont mind having an arc-welder outside their window.

The technology behind LEDs continues to advance, and the efficacy gap between warm white LEDs (think incandescent or candlelight) and the blue-rich LEDs continues to close.   Right now, there is much less energy justification to use older blue-rich technology, but the vendors keep pushing "Oh you want 'white' light, right?" despite the growing body of evidence that the blue-rich light at night is not only biologically adverse but aesthetically unfavorable.

Before it was dumped, the Form Based Code called for lighting to be 3000K or less (degrees Kelvin, or the "color temperature") with lower numbers containing less blue spectra... but that FBC boat was torpedoed.


One of the TNC members sent me a pic of when Tulsa switched from Incandescent streetlights to Mercury Vapor, and everyone was pissed at loosing the warm street look to the sickly blue-green pallor of progress.  With LEDs we can get that back.
Its just a matter of picking the right fixtures and not putting all our decisions in the hands of someone on commission.
 


I stay at a place that recently replaced the old golden bulbs for LEDs.  I dont know the temperature, but they are pretty bright, so must be 4k or 5k.  So far, in the parking lot environment they are in, I don't really see any problems yet - so far it hasn't affected driving/walking around the lot.  Seems brighter than before, but that can be affected by a lot of things.  I am gonna ask about temp next time I go there.

Also, I bought some of the 5k LED fluorescent replacement fixtures for workbench use, and a plant table.  Working under that fixture has been very good so far, but that is also not a driving scenario.

Logged

“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
patric
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 6332


These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #335 on: August 16, 2016, 10:42:42 am »

Also, I bought some of the 5k LED fluorescent replacement fixtures for workbench use, and a plant table.  Working under that fixture has been very good so far, but that is also not a driving scenario.

That's a good use for blue-rich lighting... that and daytime reading.  It not only enhances visual acuity but you actually need that blue light during the day to sync-up your Circadian rhythm.

At night, its not so good, and it definitely shouldnt be used for streetlighting.
Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
heironymouspasparagus
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 11121



« Reply #336 on: August 16, 2016, 04:15:05 pm »

That's a good use for blue-rich lighting... that and daytime reading.  It not only enhances visual acuity but you actually need that blue light during the day to sync-up your Circadian rhythm.

At night, its not so good, and it definitely shouldnt be used for streetlighting.


The parking lot lights are Cree.   e-al1l315nz led luminaire.   4000k.  10,880 lumens.  Appears to be obsolete.

Not quite 5k but still pretty "white".


Cree also makes a 3k in their XSP2 series that looks promising.

Logged

“When you wage war on the public schools, you're attacking the mortar that holds the community together. You're not a conservative, you're a vandal.”    - Garrison Keillor

Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.

What you do speaks so loud, I cannot hear what you say.
patric
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 6332


These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #337 on: August 18, 2016, 01:38:47 pm »

The lighting industry is upset that the AMA commented on the health effects of blue-rich street lighting.

http://volt.org/ama-guidelines/
Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
Cetary
Activist
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 73


« Reply #338 on: August 25, 2016, 06:19:55 pm »

Thought I'd chime in with another example of warm white full cutoff LED light. It's hard to find good examples of warm white light installations outside.



It doesn't look too bad at all It looks really inviting. It would make a very nice standard to use for all outdoor street lighting with its reduced circadian disruption over very blue 4k to 5k light. 2700-3000 kelvin lights in New York would've been such a better choice then the cold blueish 4,000 kelvin lights the city chose especially considering all the light trespass almost inevitable in that city with such close proximity of buildings to street lights.The warm white light certainly would've far better complimented the classic architecture,imo.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 06:42:46 pm by Cetary » Logged
Cetary
Activist
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 73


« Reply #339 on: September 09, 2016, 12:23:36 am »

Looks like the warm white LEDs are gaining forward momentum in Lake Worth, Florida. Looks like the went with 2700 kelvin.. I didn't even know Leotek made cobra heads that warm. Very nice to see not everyone is refitting with 4100k lights.

http://www.lakeworth.org/topics/2016/08/30/ledlighting/

It looks as if they're adding light...but at least it's a very appropriate color temperature through, I'm assuming, shielded optics.



Logged
patric
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 6332


These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #340 on: September 20, 2016, 12:14:37 pm »

Cities around the world are replacing old streetlights with energy-efficient LEDs. Not everyone is happy about it.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/as-led-streetlights-spread-some-critics-look-for-dimmer-switch-1473818463


Streetlights that use Light-Emitting Diodes have a lot of appeal. They require roughly 50% less energy than the common high-pressure sodium and metal-halide lamps. And they last much longer, resulting in big cost savings.

But some concerns have arisen about the LEDs most commonly used in streetlights.

Most LEDs in street lamps emit a bluish light, and some research has shown that humans see that light as brighter than other light sources, prompting some city residents to complain that the lights are keeping them up at night. Studies also have suggested that the bluish light in LEDs can suppress melatonin, a hormone that helps regulate sleep cycles.

In June, the American Medical Association said that poorly designed LED streetlights in the U.S. today can increase glare and disrupt sleep—which can lead to chronic health problems—and confuse animals. The AMA supports installation of LEDs, but says cities should use LEDs that cast a more yellow light and are fully shielded to direct their light downward.

About 500 New York City residents signed a petition urging the city to stop installing certain kinds of LEDs. “It’s turning NYC into a bad Wal-Mart parking lot,” read one complaint. The petition asked for fully shielded lights that would decrease light pollution and for LED lights of a warmer color—meaning more yellow.

New York has installed mostly LED street lamps of the bluer variety, but plans to switch to LEDs of a more yellow color for the 116,000 LED streetlights still to be installed, a Transportation Department spokesman says. Once the current installation of LED street lamps is complete, it is expected to save the city about $6 million a year on electricity and $8 million on maintenance. “The energy savings are a mathematical fact,” the spokesman says.

John Bullough, director of transportation and safety lighting programs at the Lighting Research Center at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, believes that people see bluer LEDs as brighter than other light sources at the same measured intensity, and he says the best way to reduce problems from early LED installations is to replace older, brighter models with LEDs of lower intensity.

Some cities are revising streetlight-replacement plans in response to residents’ protests. In Phoenix, opposition to plans for 90,000 bluish LED streetlights led the city to request that bidders propose a wider range of colors for the LEDs. In an online survey conducted by the city, citizens preferred the lights with the more yellow hue.

Phoenix officials say they will decide on the color of the lamps this fall. While the citizen input will be taken into account, says Monica Hernandez, a spokeswoman for the city’s Street Transportation Department, the city will also consider feasibility, sustainability and dollar savings.

In Lake Worth, Fla., town officials chose the more yellow light when they decided to convert some 5,300 streetlights to LEDs earlier this year. The color temperature of the lights was measured at 2,700 Kelvins. The Florida Transportation Department, however, specifies bluer, 4,000K lights for major roadways.

After analyzing the intensity of the new lamps, the town found that the more yellow lights produced as much brightness as the state required. The results persuaded the state to allow the town to go with the lower-Kelvin LEDs, says Michael Bornstein, Lake Worth’s city manager.

The town also chose LEDs with several brightness settings and is letting homeowners associations or residents choose the setting at the time of installation. The town is also installing shields when residents request them. The more-yellow LEDs cost as much to install as the bluer variety, says Jack Borsch, electric utilities director at Lake Worth. The shields added a tiny fraction to the cost of each light.

Eversource Energy, a Connecticut utility, has installed about 889 LEDs of 4,000K—the industry standard last year—in 25 towns, but now will install 3,000K LEDs. “We will make any modifications or replacements necessary to ensure the protection of public health and welfare,” says Tricia Taskey Modifica, a spokeswoman for the company.

The Connecticut Conference of Municipalities, which helps cities make joint purchases and other decisions, says its towns are satisfied with the LED streetlights they have. “If you look at why cities and towns are changing to LEDs, the main driver is economic,” says Andy Merola, energy and program development manager for the association. The AMA report “doesn’t change the economics,” he says. “I don’t think anyone is second-guessing their LED installation.”
Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
patric
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 6332


These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #341 on: September 25, 2016, 12:47:31 pm »

The American Medical Association issued a warning in June that high-intensity LED streetlights — such as those in Seattle, Los Angeles, New York, Houston and elsewhere — emit unseen blue light that can disturb sleep rhythms and possibly increase the risk of serious health conditions, including cancer and cardiovascular disease. The AMA also cautioned that those light-emitting-diode lights can impair nighttime driving vision.

Similar concerns have been raised over the past few years, but the AMA report adds credence to the issue and is likely to prompt cities and states to reevaluate the intensity of LED lights they install.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/some-cities-are-taking-another-look-at-led-lighting-after-ama-warning/2016/09/21/98779568-7c3d-11e6-bd86-b7bbd53d2b5d_story.html
Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
Hoss
I'm a Daft Punk
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 10922


I might be moving to Montana soon...


WWW
« Reply #342 on: September 25, 2016, 12:52:25 pm »

The American Medical Association issued a warning in June that high-intensity LED streetlights — such as those in Seattle, Los Angeles, New York, Houston and elsewhere — emit unseen blue light that can disturb sleep rhythms and possibly increase the risk of serious health conditions, including cancer and cardiovascular disease. The AMA also cautioned that those light-emitting-diode lights can impair nighttime driving vision.

Similar concerns have been raised over the past few years, but the AMA report adds credence to the issue and is likely to prompt cities and states to reevaluate the intensity of LED lights they install.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/some-cities-are-taking-another-look-at-led-lighting-after-ama-warning/2016/09/21/98779568-7c3d-11e6-bd86-b7bbd53d2b5d_story.html


What are they using here now?  I'm especially curious about what they've been replacing along I-244 for the stretch they rehabbed last year.  They've been on and off during the day sometimes and I don't travel much at night anymore..well, at least until hockey season starts back up.
Logged

Libertarianism is a system of beliefs for people who think adolescence is the epitome of human achievement.

Global warming isn't real because it was cold today.  Also great news: world famine is over because I just ate - Stephen Colbert.

Somebody find Guido an ambulance to chase...
patric
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 6332


These Aren't the Droids You're Looking For


« Reply #343 on: September 25, 2016, 03:13:39 pm »

What are they using here now?  I'm especially curious about what they've been replacing along I-244 for the stretch they rehabbed last year.  They've been on and off during the day sometimes and I don't travel much at night anymore..well, at least until hockey season starts back up.

Smatterings of 4000K-5000K, first-generation stuff.  The price we pay for being early adopters.

Most of my home lighting is 2700K which is indistinguishable from an incandescent light, for example.  3000K = good.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2016, 11:51:28 am by patric » Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
Hoss
I'm a Daft Punk
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 10922


I might be moving to Montana soon...


WWW
« Reply #344 on: September 25, 2016, 06:14:19 pm »

Smatterings of 4K-5K, first-generation stuff.  The price we pay for being early adopters.

Most of my home lighting is 2.7K which is indistinguishable from an incandescent light, for example.  3K = good.

Are those cutoff lights?  The type that at least try not to be light polluters?  I'm trying to educate myself the best I can.  I've been replacing all my non fluorescent light fixtures here lately with all LED.  I still have three 36"x2 fluorescent fixtures; I will likely replace them once the ballast resistors go bad.  Two of them I think are on their last legs.
Logged

Libertarianism is a system of beliefs for people who think adolescence is the epitome of human achievement.

Global warming isn't real because it was cold today.  Also great news: world famine is over because I just ate - Stephen Colbert.

Somebody find Guido an ambulance to chase...
Pages: 1 ... 21 22 [23] 24 25 ... 31   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

 
  Hosted by TulsaConnect and Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
 

Mission

 

"TulsaNow's Mission is to help Tulsa become the most vibrant, diverse, sustainable and prosperous city of our size. We achieve this by focusing on the development of Tulsa's distinctive identity and economic growth around a dynamic, urban core, complemented by a constellation of livable, thriving communities."
more...

 

Contact

 

2210 S Main St.
Tulsa, OK 74114
(918) 409-2669
info@tulsanow.org