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Author Topic: Better Streetlights for Tulsa  (Read 110592 times)
sgrizzle
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« Reply #135 on: May 10, 2011, 08:15:07 pm »

Noticed the new lights along the I-44 corridor today.  Are those the permanent lights.  They seem pretty small compared to other interstate lights I've seen.

Yes
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patric
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« Reply #136 on: May 11, 2011, 10:24:36 am »

Noticed the new lights along the I-44 corridor today.  Are those the permanent lights.  They seem pretty small compared to other interstate lights I've seen.

http://www.holophane.com/products/ImagePopup.asp?ImageName=G%20Drop%20T-D_large

Unfortunately.


The Holophane Mongoose produces terrible glare, and trespass (spill) beyond the roadway.
It's essentially a broad floodlight, with the worst performance furthest away from the fixture, where the light is practically shining along the horizon.  It's about as useful as the sun in your eyes.  DOTs like them because they eliminate the overhead arm and make for cheaper installations (not because they produce better light). 

What would have been a better choice (even using less electricity)?


Aww, you guessed.   Wink
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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
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« Reply #137 on: July 06, 2011, 09:55:51 am »

More on why color really matters:

Artificial light has been around for more than 120 years. But the light emitted by older sources, like incandescent bulbs, contains more red wavelengths. The problem now, Dr. Brainard and other researchers fear, is that our world is increasingly illuminated in blue. By one estimate, 1.6 billion new computers, televisions and cellphones were sold last year alone, and incandescent lights are being replaced by more energy-efficient, and often bluer, bulbs.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/05/health/05light.html?_r=2&ref=general&src=me&pagewanted=all

In this modern world, our eyes are flooded with light well after dusk, contrary to our evolutionary programming. Scientists are just beginning to understand the potential health consequences. The disruption of circadian cycles may not just be shortchanging our sleep, they have found, but also contributing to a host of diseases.
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patric
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« Reply #138 on: August 13, 2011, 08:50:58 am »

Sometimes being able to afford streetlights where they are needed means removing them from where they aren't needed:

http://www.rrstar.com/carousel/x181941773/900-streetlights-removed-so-far-in-Rockfords-cost-cutting-plan

ROCKFORD — City officials and ComEd are more than a third of the way to their goal of removing 2,400 streetlights from city roadways by the end of the year, saving $500,000 in electricity costs
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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
EricGarcia
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« Reply #139 on: August 13, 2011, 02:45:06 pm »

Broken Arrow is adding highway lighting to the concrete median along the Broken Arrow Expressway from Aspen (145th E. Ave.) to County Line Rd. (193rd E. Ave.)
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« Reply #140 on: August 13, 2011, 03:54:25 pm »

Broken Arrow is adding highway lighting to the concrete median along the Broken Arrow Expressway from Aspen (145th E. Ave.) to County Line Rd. (193rd E. Ave.)

It makes sense to add lighting to interchanges (to draw you attention to areas that need it) but if they are just lighting entire straightaways it would be a waste of taxpayer money.
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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
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« Reply #141 on: August 18, 2011, 01:48:28 am »


http://www.holophane.com/products/ImagePopup.asp?ImageName=G%20Drop%20T-D_large

Unfortunately.


The Holophane Mongoose produces terrible glare, and trespass (spill) beyond the roadway.
It's essentially a broad floodlight, with the worst performance furthest away from the fixture, where the light is practically shining along the horizon.  It's about as useful as the sun in your eyes.  DOTs like them because they eliminate the overhead arm and make for cheaper installations (not because they produce better light).

They did use these in Phoenix, but they actually put three sided hoods on them to help direct the light to the roadway. The are used alot in the area around Sky Harbor on I-10.  

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Phoenix+Sky+Harbor+International+Airport,+3400+East+Sky+Harbor+Boulevard,+Phoenix,+AZ+85034&hl=en&ll=33.432493,-112.037804&spn=0.000009,0.013014&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=36.505383,106.611328&vpsrc=6&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=33.432493,-112.037804&panoid=P-x0ukY0AiAdSvDldKlFiQ&cbp=12,113.34,,0,1.93

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« Reply #142 on: September 18, 2011, 05:31:07 pm »

Patric,

I thought you might appreciate that Tulsa isn't the only place with bad taste in street lighting.

I have some pictures of the street lights along Peoria/Elm south of the Creek Turnpike in Jenks but it appears that I cannot post them.  Oh well.
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patric
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« Reply #143 on: September 28, 2011, 04:40:46 pm »

North Tulsa Getting More Street Lights Under City 'Lights On' Project
 
TULSA, Oklahoma -- The city of Tulsa's new Lights On project will see the city installing 53 new street lights, most of which will be in North Tulsa.
Mayor Dewey Bartlett and representatives from the Public Service Company of Oklahoma were on hand for the announcement at the corner of Mohawk and North Lewis Wednesday afternoon.

Bartlett says the project was the result of a citizen's survey calling for more streetlights citywide to increase neighborhood safety throughout Tulsa.
Bartlett said a Lights On! committee composed of representatives from the Mayor's Office, PSO, Tulsa Police Department and City of Tulsa Traffic Engineering to create a work plan for more street lighting in neighborhoods.



What a shame there was no one on the committee that knew anything about good street lighting.

It's not just that the mayor is placating a population segment without establishing that the expenditure would actually meet the stated goal, but the lights they are leasing from the electric utility are junk.
Wonder if they even bothered to do a study, or just went with knee-jerk perceptions of people responding to anonymous surveys?
...And what would it have hurt to specify newer, low-glare "shielded" fixtures for new installations?
They would have used less electricity, yet provided better light.
  
The garbage streetlights they will be using are drop-lens Cobras (left) and NEMA-head (right).  In other words, the same stock energy-wasting AEP inventory.
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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
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« Reply #144 on: September 28, 2011, 04:54:46 pm »

But blinding light and glare keeps you safe.
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« Reply #145 on: September 28, 2011, 05:07:22 pm »

North Tulsa Getting More Street Lights Under City 'Lights On' Project
 
TULSA, Oklahoma -- The city of Tulsa's new Lights On project will see the city installing 53 new street lights, most of which will be in North Tulsa.
Mayor Dewey Bartlett and representatives from the Public Service Company of Oklahoma were on hand for the announcement at the corner of Mohawk and North Lewis Wednesday afternoon.

Bartlett says the project was the result of a citizen's survey calling for more streetlights citywide to increase neighborhood safety throughout Tulsa.
Bartlett said a Lights On! committee composed of representatives from the Mayor's Office, PSO, Tulsa Police Department and City of Tulsa Traffic Engineering to create a work plan for more street lighting in neighborhoods.



What a shame there was no one on the committee that knew anything about good street lighting.

It's not just that the mayor is placating a population segment without establishing that the expenditure would actually meet the stated goal, but the lights they are leasing from the electric utility are junk.
Wonder if they even bothered to do a study, or just went with knee-jerk perceptions of people responding to anonymous surveys?
...And what would it have hurt to specify newer, low-glare "shielded" fixtures for new installations?
They would have used less electricity, yet provided better light.
  
The garbage streetlights they will be using are drop-lens Cobras (left) and NEMA-head (right).  In other words, the same stock energy-wasting AEP inventory.


Wonder if this travesty is part of the Mayors vaunted "energy efficiency" initiative?   Roll Eyes
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patric
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« Reply #146 on: September 29, 2011, 08:29:19 am »

But blinding light and glare keeps you safe.

"While the science behind it says lights mainly impact the feeling of safety, here the Tulsa police believe it will make a difference in actual crime.
"You're right, it is a feeling, because it's in our genetics to be afraid of the dark and light makes us not as scared," said Tulsa Police Captain Jonathon Brooks.

It was the police department that suggested more lights around a high crime area near 3600 North Lewis. "



But it's always easier to spend someone elses money.
If the cost to buy and operate these came from the TPD budget, they would not be quite so impulsive.
Lets see how many cadets and Police Academies and pay raises they would give up to pay for lighting empty stretches of road and cul-de-sacs.

Come on Capt. Brooks, just come out and say there is no scientific correlation between adding more lights and reducing crime.  The DOJ studies actually show the opposite...  or maybe just listen to your own people:
"In this case the thieves break into cars under street lights.  That just helps them see what's inside," says Tulsa Police Burglary Sergeant Brandon Watkins.
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Thieves-Could-Target-NCAA-Fans/lImKfJt9GU-CasQ7w_vtiw.cspx

So, which would be a better use of $2700 -- paying a patrolman for real security, or the utility company for the perception of security?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 09:07:13 am by patric » Logged

"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
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« Reply #147 on: September 30, 2011, 10:20:50 am »

Wonder if this travesty is part of the Mayors vaunted "energy efficiency" initiative?   Roll Eyes

It's one thing to try and convince leaders to upgrade existing lights,
but these are completely new installations that could be done correctly from the start.

What a lost opportunity.
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« Reply #148 on: September 30, 2011, 10:51:49 am »

We must be careful we don't get into the "unwarranted government intrusion" zone - that place where government dictates what is suitable based on what is actually best for the citizens.

This is closely related to the architecture allowed in commercial buildings, including signage and facades.  Recently took a trip to the northwest of here and was impressed with the fundamental approach to a variety of these type things.  From bike lanes to signs to the style of the front of buildings, there was a large number of towns in the various states that obviously are intruding and as consequence, making their towns look very nice.  Tulsa still makes all the noise about "America's Most Beautiful City" while losing the substance to back it up over the last 30 years or so.  The main propaganda cheerleaders behind the continuation of that urban myth have either NOT traveled elsewhere or are flat out lying.

Many of the cities were approached at late evening, and when viewed from a distance, the lighting looked subdued, almost like the town was "closed" for the night.  But when we got closer, the lighting was more than adequate, but not splashing all over the town.  Very nice effect in many of these towns.  (Denver is still obnoxious - glaring.)

Having said that, our downtown area is a very good, if somewhat limited start at fixing the aesthetics.  And then undone so much by allowing the massive LED billboards....

We should send a delegation to study;  CO; Aurora, Boulder, Loveland, Estes Park, Longmont, Ft. Collins, Craig, Steamboat Springs, Idaho Springs, Arvada, Broomfield.  WY; Cheyenne, Casper, Buffalo, Jackson, Rock Springs.  MT; Billings, Livingston, Bozeman.  UT; Vernal. 

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« Reply #149 on: September 30, 2011, 12:15:58 pm »

We must be careful we don't get into the "unwarranted government intrusion" zone - that place where government dictates what is suitable based on what is actually best for the citizens.

Compared to allowing private industry (with all the conflicts of interest) to make those choices, an "intrusion" by the city council or INCOG would be a lesser evil if it reigns in a little corporate greed.

There's nothing wrong with a public process to set design standards for neighborhoods, for instance, or requiring efficiency standards for municipal lighting.  Just throwing up your hands and saying to the utility companies "Here, you do it" is poor leadership.


P.S. My epiphany was in Tucson in '96.  My perception was that the streets looked dark (because of the absence of glare), yet I could see better and further without that glare.  Cops and firemen loved it, so did the taxpayers: they saved $$millions upfront because they use less electricity.
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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
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